From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #247 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 7 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 247 In this issue: the_dojang: Meaning of Belts/ Chris the_dojang: chopsticks! the_dojang: My Dark Side the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #246 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #246 the_dojang: Um and Yang, swirly line the_dojang: Re: Is the Um or Yang Missing... the_dojang: colors the_dojang: Korean female grandmaster the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #246 the_dojang: Re: Belt colors the_dojang: Re: WTF Website the_dojang: Re: Female Ranks the_dojang: cults Re: the_dojang: Re: Belt colors the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~730 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 13:46:08 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Meaning of Belts/ Chris From: "CALLAHAN" <> Depends.... With light, "white" is the combination of all colors, and "black" is the complete lack of it..... 8-0 (at least I think of colors this way) I'm with Dankin, I think too much emphasis is put on the "belt". Personally, they only serve to help show your progress/rank within the system. The belt itself has no "special meanings", no power, no mystique. I've seen a few freak when my belt touched the floor... they picked it up for me as if picking up something extremely valuable and fragile. I thought the guy was about to bow to it, worship it...??? As I've told my students, the belt itself means nothing. They may wear a white belt, I a blue belt with some red strips on it, but they are only belts. If I tied a white belt on myself, would I all of a sudden lose 20 something years of experience and knowledge?? If I tied a master belt on them, would all of a sudden they burst forth with experience, skill and knowledge that they didn't have before? NOT! It is the skill and experience of the wearer that has meaning, not the belt. Of course with that said, I do realize it is the main motivator and "goal" for most of us to get the next belt and I try to keep that in mind. I think some folks like the mystique with the belt thing...makes it "cool"! :-) Dennis "Blue Belt" (with funny red stripes along it) PS: and NO, I don't sleep with it either! but/and I bet JH does!!! ------------------------------ From: Tom Marker Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: chopsticks! Our school has a dinner at a chinese restaurant (the korean one isn't quite up to health code for us.) after gup testings, and from there we pass on the fine art of manipulating chopsticks. I've had lots of prior experience, but I am the only one in class who uses them left-handed. Needless to say, no one wants to sit next to me. So, should Grandmaster Shin ever visit us for dinner, our students have been training since their orange belt test to impress him:) I should also add as a side note that taking someone to a chinese restaurant and teaching them how to use chopsticks makes a very nice "first date" event, because you get to show them something neat, and have an excuse to hold their hands... not to mention it will probably make the meal last longer:) Are metal chopsticks more prominent in Korean than wooden ones? I seem to remember hearing this before. Tang Soo!!!!! Tom Marker marker.11@osu.edu http://www.osu.edu/students/btsd/ ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 12:52:14 PDT Subject: the_dojang: My Dark Side This is just something that happened quite a few years ago so the details I share are the best I can recollect. It was at a tournament. Men's division. I was center ref and a match came up where both competitors were great. Good fighters, polite, the best. Now my philosophy is always to let the competitors fight. Of course safety first. Well this story ties in with my post about social skills and conflict resolution. The coach was the loudest, most obnoxious person in a ring that I have ever met. Ever. He wouldn't settle down. Loud, obnoxious, jumping up and down. Mean. Belligerent to everyone. I tried all of my sweet, persuasive charm to settle him (Big smile). 5 seconds later he's back to same o' same o'. Okay I get stronger.. Nothing. He was so bad that it was totally disrupting the match. Even the competitors had a hard time and his student was torn between watching him and fighting and being very embarrassed. Well I finally had the competitor go over and try and chill this guy out and tell him that if he continued I would start deducting points for the coach's bad behavior. The competitor was great. He talked to his coach but to no avail. So wham I did a 1/2 deduction. Guy looked shocked. I replied not again. He totally lost it again. I went wham.. another 1/2 point deduction. And I made sure he understood it was because of him and I made sure he understood that if his student lost the match it would also be because of him. That one stopped him. Finally. His student still went on to win the match. This is probably one of the hardest things I had to do especially because his competitors were so great. You had to be there to understand how really bad it was for me to do that. Talk about um and yang. He must not have had any respect for the student at all. First time for everything. jamaica_power@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Aaron Harmon" Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 15:07:19 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #246 "Hmm. I checked out the page. At the "best chops in town" link, http://twincities.sidewalk.com/link/21022, they list "School of Chung Moo Doe". I seem to recall a lot of discussion about Chung Moo Doe on the net a few years ago. Lots of talk about it being a cult like organization with offerings for the grand instructor, etc. " I looked at this page. Check out the Martial Arts Glossary. I like that Elvis Presley was a karate Black Belt (And all this time I thought it was Ed Parker Kempo) and Jujutsu is Chuck Norris' specialty (I guess Tang Soo Do is just a hobby). ------------------------------ From: "Aaron Harmon" Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 15:11:18 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #246 Hmm. I checked out the page. At the "best chops in town" link, http://twincities.sidewalk.com/link/21022, they list "School of Chung Moo Doe". I seem to recall a lot of discussion about Chung Moo Doe on the net a few years ago. Lots of talk about it being a cult like organization with offerings for the grand instructor, etc. Oh, and it says that Muay Thai kickboxers don't spar... ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 15:26:24 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Um and Yang, swirly line Does anybody know what the swirly line in the um yang/yin yang symbol means as opposed to it be linear? Since straight lines are usually the shortest route between two points I sometimes feel the swirly line represents a very long journey (my personal interpretation) :) Does anybody know the real story? Thank you. jamaica_power@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 17:18:13 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Is the Um or Yang Missing... >>>>I know of no female grand-master types in TKD or other KMAs, although our >>>>school owner's wife is one of the few (two?)>>> >Paul Rogers >==================================== > >Hmmmm... we must do something about that :) > >jamaica_power@hotmail.com FYI, there appears to be more female Grandasters in Kung Fu. I have friends at the Wing Lum Kung Fu Academy here, and the Grandmaster recently went to China to refine his techniques for Sun Sytle Tai Chi. He studied with Grandmaster Sun Jian-Yun, who is the daughter of the systems founder, Sun Lu-Tang. I saw a picture of her when I visited the school here. Looks like a sweet, old grandmother to me :-) URL for Sifu Lum, if you are interested. No picture of Grandmaster Sun there. They used to have it on their web site, but I can't find it now. http://www.wle.com/resources/sifucrnr.htm Also, last year, a friend of mine showed me a magazine that had another female Grandmaster for some Kung Fu style. Can't remember the details except that she looked way too young to be a Grandmaster. Apparently, she attributes her youthful appearance to her MA training. Her real age is supposed to be a secret. Hmmm... Stan ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 19:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: colors Re belt colors, An old instructor of mine, a student under the MDK's Hwang Kee said that during his time at the MDK they used white, green, blue, red, black. White = pure Green = growing Blue = smooth and peaceful Red = Dangerous (to self as well as others) Black = Complete (?) At Green, Blue, Red, and Black you trimmed your dobok in the same color as your belt. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 00:28:14 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Korean female grandmaster In a message dated 99-05-06 10:54:43 EDT, you write: << >>>I know of no female grand-master types in TKD or other KMAs, although our >>>school owner's wife is one of the few (two?)>>> Paul Rogers ==================================== Hmmmm... we must do something about that :) Thanks so much for the info. Believe it or not I didn't have that. And you just asked something I was going to ask so thanks. What is the highest ranking female in your respective schools and perhaps organization? >> You need to learn about Grandmaster Kim Tae Yun. I'm surprised that you, Jamacia, do not know about her. She has an impressive history, for a man or woman and founded the art of Jung SuWon. I have both of her books, "Seven Steps To Inner Power" and "The Silent Master" and I know she has a video out as well, and teaches out of San Fransico now. When I lived in Korea, one of my students asked if I knew of her. I said yes, I had read her books. She then said she really admired her. So she is known to the younger girls in Korea. I also remember watching a video of a Hapkido demo in Seoul with my instructor one day. He pointed to her and said she owned her own school. So while Korean female masters are not numerous, there are some. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 00:46:23 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #246 In a message dated 99-05-06 14:36:13 EDT, you write: << And on the topic of women grandmasters, check out Jung SuWon Academy (http://www.jungsuwon.com). She claims an 8th Dan. >> I just wrote a note about Kim Tae Yun. She claims to have started training in the 50s when she was 7 years old,learning from her uncle. So her being an 8th dan is not that unbelievable. As I mentioned, one of my students knew about her in Kangnung and called her a grandmaster. But I did like some of the things she wrote about in her books. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "Darlene" Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:46:35 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Belt colors Ray Terry wrote: >The belt getting dirty is urban (?) legend... Dr. J.Kano started the belt >system grading system. I heard this story from my master instructor who heard it from our GM. In fact, my master said he has seen the belt that his master had as a young man: very dirty from years of sweat, dirt, grass, blood, and hard work in general. I haven't seen this belt myself, but I haven't any reason to doubt my master. He's a very honest man. I'm sure that someone (Dr. Kano, perhaps) started standardizing a color belt system, but I wouldn't necessarily put off the system of the"dirtier your belt is, the higher rank you are" as a previous system. Perhaps I need to do some research of my own, and ask the GM next time I see him! Darlene 2nd kup Port Hadlock, WA ------------------------------ From: "Darlene" Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 22:08:33 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: WTF Website The site on my links is: http://www.worldsport.com/sports/taekwondo/home.html Darlene ------------------------------ From: Steven Gilmore Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 05:40:52 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Female Ranks Jamaica asks: >What is the highest ranking female in your respective schools and perhaps >organization? In my school, 3rd degree. In my organization (Kuk Sool Won), 7th degree. Sincerely, Steven Gilmore Houston, TX, USA ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Belt colors > I heard this story from my master instructor who heard it from our GM. In > fact, my master said he has seen the belt that his master had as a young > man: very dirty from years of sweat, dirt, grass, blood, and hard work in > general. I haven't seen this belt myself, but I haven't any reason to doubt > my master. He's a very honest man. > I'm sure that someone (Dr. Kano, perhaps) started standardizing a color belt > system, but I wouldn't necessarily put off the system of the"dirtier your > belt is, the higher rank you are" as a previous system. Sorry, urban legend... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #247 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.