From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #258 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 13 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 258 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: winning the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #257 the_dojang: Coaches and Competitors the_dojang: On Winning! the_dojang: Re: USNTF, USTF, USTU, UNOWUTTEYEMEAN? :) the_dojang: What is the worst, meanest, ugliest injury you have seen... the_dojang: Re: TKD Art survey the_dojang: Re: Nukes the_dojang: Re: V6 #256: good deed the_dojang: Uneventful Test and Congratulations Jane Re: the_dojang: Re: Nukes the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~730 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:09:46 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: winning Jamaica, I read these two sayings and another popped into my mind. "When you lose be sure not to lose the lesson." Where (if at all) does that come in during training? Dawne << Winning isn't everything, or is it? > > There are two sayings: > > Winning isn't everything, > > and = > > Winning isn't everything, it is = > > the only thing. >> ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:34:25 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #257 In a message dated 5/12/99 3:05:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Is it just me or are there waaay too many TKD orgs around these days, haa haa. >> It's not you. Look in the back of any martial arts rag; you can buy rank from at least a dozen of 'em. Once people get smart, if they ever do, they will realize there is one NGB in America representing one IF in the world: USTU & WTF. Sorry if you have been scammed. SESilz ------------------------------ From: "Bradley G. Smith" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:33:48 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Coaches and Competitors I have read a lot of posts on Dojang Digest and TKD Net regarding competition ring manners, coaching manners, proper level of "attitude", etc.. It seems to me that losing is a part of competing, and all fighters should lose in a well mannered fashion, coaches helping them to "learn how" if manners come hard to the competitor in the event of a defeat. I'm sure you can see where I'm headed with this. We all want to win. Lots of those who post seem to think rude manners before a bout are justifiable if there is an advantage had. Coaches, this is living for the moment and training your fighters to do so as well. Such a route is inferior. The victorious fighter who has been unmannerly will never be as worthy as the victorious fighter who has shown proper etiquette to the opponent and officials. Coaches, who has judged a hard bout where one or both of the fighters showed determined fighting spirit throughout and ALSO excellent manners without thinking that the competitor(s) was already in a way a champion? Speaking now only for myself, I feel a sense of loss when I see a player knows no better than to show poor manners and his coach evidently has no interest in correcting the mistake. Why aspire to merely be or train the victorious competitior instead of victorious and displaying to the world all the higher qualities the KTA says the Tae Kwon Do player should aspire to? Become/create the best. Best regards, Bradley G. Smith ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:43:38 PDT Subject: the_dojang: On Winning! First, thank you to all that responded with those great responses on winning and winning is the only thing. Now my next followup (non-judgmental)only for discussion question is this: Your most treasured competitor comes to you with the following comment: "I've got it!. I will win at all costs for you! I will do what it takes to win, Sa Bu Nim! What would be your reaction? Obviously this would also depend on the personality of the competitor but would your initial reaction be one of "oh no, what did I create? or Fabulous, He/She finally understands the concepts and has the will and determination to win. Any and all other thoughts welcomed for discussion. There is such a fine line here. jamaica_power@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:55:35 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: USNTF, USTF, USTU, UNOWUTTEYEMEAN? :) In a message dated 5/12/99 3:04:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: Greg Giddins Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:33:58 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: USTF? >In case anyone dosen't already know, this is not the real US Taekwondo Championship. SESilz< << 7th United States National Taekwondo Federation Championships >> Maybe putting it as United States Taekwondo Federation National Championships would be more clear. Is this in fact who is hosting this tournament? The USTF? Is it just me or are there waaay too many TKD orgs around these days, haa haa. Greg Giddins ggiddins@ossinc.net Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. >> hi greg, actually, this is gm duk gun kwon's association, the united states national taekwondo federation, or USNTF. it is their championship. i've heard they offer an excellent instructors course and demo's prior to the championship. i was very impressed with the overview of the course and the price....$150. i met gm kwon at a tourney in illinois back in march. he was a very nice and respectful gentleman. master robert perry was kind enough to introduce me and i appreciated them both taking the time. take care, melinda p.s. jeez, i love your end quotes ;) ------------------------------ From: Tony Preston Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:11:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: What is the worst, meanest, ugliest injury you have seen... I thought I would start a discussion about injuries... alot of people have had or seen injuries where they train. Two questions... What was the injury? and What could have prevented it? For myself, a recent training session had a person knocked out with a punch to the nose (right between the eyes...). Broke his nose... He was out (he was talking to us, but you could tell he was still out...). The broken nose was the result of a punch to the chest and him ducking right into it. It was an accident, but... As for prevention, well, the person punching should have pulled it, even with the other person ducking into it... It could have just been a hard hit with out the dangers of a strike like that... - -- - -- Tony Preston, Team *AMIGA*, Linux developer since 1996 - -- Custom Services, P. O. Box 254, Moorestown, NJ 08055 - -- The Amiga Zone BBS (609) 953-8159 ------------------------------ From: "Darlene" Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:17:30 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: TKD Art survey Dawne, I'm happy to help out and happy anniversary!!! #1 What is YOUR definition of art? Art is the personal expression of thoughts, feelings and passion through a presentation, most often a visual, auditory or tactile sharing. Art is a person's highest quality expression and demonstration of what s/he has learned and practiced. Art is the deep internal understanding of life's gifts and the sharing of that understanding with others. #2 Are the m.a. an art form? The martial arts can be a form of art if treated as such. Not all aspects of MA are art. Not all MA are art. Grace and presentation are a high factor in the MA aspect of art. Tai Chi is art by definition of its deep internal focus of life's beauty; TKD can be art, especially through its demonstration of the soft-hard, um-yang philosophy; Karate, Judo and Kung Fu can be art, as can other MA, as long as they have more to them than just sparring to win. #3 Because you practice/train in the m.a. does that make you an artist? I am an artist not because I practice and train and learn new ways to become more graceful and adept at what I do, but because I learn how to look inside myself and express beauty through my forms and techniques. I seek a greater understanding of the philosophy of TKD and the application of it in everyday life. A TKD practitioner is not by definition an artist, but a TKD artist is one who takes his/her lessons and uses them to show others the beauty in its practice. #4 Is every facet of an art an art form? I refer to breaking, forms and sparring. I believe that forms are art; breaking is art; but not necessarily sparring. Sparring can be an art if one is sparring with technique and not just throwing kicks and punches. Not every performance of a form is art, not every break is art. When I broke a board with an axe kick, that was art. The board made no sound other than that of a clear snap, my leg was straight and my mind was focused. My foot felt no pain. When I perform my forms in class and shake my head at my errors, that is not art; it is art-in-progress. ;-) I hope you will have the opportunity to share some of your responses on the digest! Darlene 2nd kup WTF TKD age 39 (goal: BB before 40!) ------------------------------ From: "Dylan Walsh" Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:52:58 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Nukes >From: >Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:51:29 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: the_dojang: Nukes > >Folks, time to nip this one in the bud. This is not the appropriate forum to >disucss nuclear weaponry. > >Ray Terry >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com I completely disagree! Would you use a thermonuclear weopon to defend yourself if attacked by a mugger? Lead lined hogus> Are there any techniques to disarm a nuclear capable opponent? Should these weopons be allowed in competition? Should an instructor teach the use of nuclear weopons before a student reaches Dan level? Removing fallout from the dojang floor. Does your instructor teach the traditional fission form, or the more modern Hydrogen type?.... Obviously this is completely relevent to a forum for the discussion of Korean martial arts, and the subscribers are well capable of moderating themselves, without the need for intervention. ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #256: good deed Dawne wrote: >#1 What is YOUR definition of art? Far be it from me to question the authority of Mr. Webster or his antecedents. An art is a skill or occupation that requires observation and experience to master, In other words, purely academic study will not suffice. >#2 Are the m.a. an art form? The M.A. are clearly an art by the definition above. "Art form" is a distinct term, implying creative variations on a more-or-less established structure. It isn't clear to me that the common practice of m.a. meets this definition, as the structure is there, but the creative latitude may be insufficient. I suppose for some advanced practitioners and for those synthesizing new styles this definition may apply. >#3 Because you practice/train in the m.a. does that make you an artist? By strict definition, I'd be more inclined to say it makes me an "artisan", which has a practical flavor to it. "Artist", in modern useage, strongly implies a practitioner of the "fine arts", which m.a. clearly is not, IMHO. >#4 Is every facet of an art an art form? I refer to breaking, forms and >sparring. With the definition proposed in my #2 answer as a background (and the same exceptions noted): forms - probably not enough latitude for expression; sparring - probably not enough structure; breaking - probably yes, it has structure, but also quite a lot of opportunity for creative expression. On further consideration, weapons forms might also qualify, since wider variations from the "stock" form are usually tolerated (esp. at tournament level) than in traditional "empty hand" forms. Hope this helps, Dawne! Tang Soo! Scott A. Miller samiller@bix.com samiller@cyberenet.net ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:45:46 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Uneventful Test and Congratulations Jane >>>>>>>>In a way the test was wonderful, but in another way, uneventful. For several months I had been getting together with friends from class, outside of class, practicing, so I was well-prepared and there were no surprises. Stan, maybe that will help your butterflies. Practice until you know the stuff backwards. (And, on your right and left side). So, everyone tells me it's now a whole new ballgame. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks to everyone for the encouragement. Jane>>> ================================================== First things first, Congratulations and I am glad you didn't get reinjured and that it was a wonderfully positive experience for you. Next, I do believe you are the first person I know that has had an uneventful testing in martial arts (smile). Seriously, usually we share our war stories...And they did not bestow any surprises on you either? Truly amazing! Also sounds like you were very well prepared. Would you mind sharing what you had to do at your test? Thank you. Anyone else have an uneventful testing experience (at any belt level). jamaica_power@hotmail.com "When the rich make war, it's the poor that die." (Jean-Paul Sartre) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Nukes > Korean martial arts, and the subscribers are well capable of moderating > themselves, without the need for intervention. Why of course they are. And rec.martial-arts is a friendly place to visit... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #258 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.