From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #288 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 2 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 288 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #287 the_dojang: Biomechanics and force the_dojang: Aggressiveness the_dojang: blocks can be more than blocks [none] the_dojang: pressure points the_dojang: Creatine the_dojang: I Was The Senior Student! the_dojang: Forms Competition the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 01:24:35 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #287 At 15:42 01/06/1999 -0700, you wrote: >Maybe I've been doing and teaching "Sine Wave" for years without knowing it! >Could some of you ITF'ers help me find out? > >In Han Mu Do, we teach a "step, stop, punch" motion. The punch is actually a >continuation of the momemtum generated from the step. We don't step in the >"c" fashion (bringing the feet together and then out into a wide front >stance) to keep from raising and lowering the body. Well - that is exactly what is aimed at with ITF TKD sine wave - to raise and lower the body. Let me give you a couple of examples: 1) when standing in a sitting stance (annun sogi) and executing regular punches (kaunde jirugi), you almost straighten up your legs entirely between each punch. You sit down and enter sitting stance at the exact time of the punch. 2) when standing in a walking stance (gunnun sogi) and making a step forward to perform a punch, you almost straighten out your knees when in the middle of the step. You kind of "fall" into the punch execution and get quite some momentum. When walking in this fashion, the knee follows the posture of a sine wave along your direction of movement. >Yes, it does create a >"wave" motion. Could that be what you refer to as "sine wave?" Isn't this a >similar motion to Tai Chi (Han Tae Kuek?) > >I can see where we use the same "wave" motion in the execution of armbars, >wrist locks, and throws, too. I just never thought of it that way. Could >someone "enlighten" me, or at least give me an "ahhh" rather than a "hmmm?" hmmm...hmmm...hmmm I hope I explained it clearly. If not, find a copy of Choi Hing His 15-volume encyclopedia (an excellent multimedia version can be obtained through www.comdo.com). The explanation for this can be found in volume 4 from page 202 and onwards. Sincerely, Anders Torvill Bjorvand Norway ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:40:56 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Biomechanics and force Well as I'm winding down on some posts here I had some additional thoughts. As most of you know I've been doing plyometrics for a long time. I'm also interested in items such as biomechanics, sports medicine and injuries. As we talk about the full contact aggressiveness and injuries occurring at elite competitions and the potential for severe injury or worse, then I was wondering if anybody has ever done a study on the force and speed of some of the kicks and punches generated by our current elite competitors (any organization or m.a distributors). I'd be surprised if a study hasn't yet been done because (IMHO) I think it should be done. What I am looking for is somebody that has done something like this as is done in tennis or baseball where when the ball is hit on a serve or otherwise; you can determine the force and the speed of the particular hit. It would seem to me that we should also be measuring the force of impact of some of the competitors using some type of force plate or computer program to generate the data during personal training sessions. I could see the advantages to this especially in a study not only for effective competition but safety and safety equipment. All thoughts welcome. Jamaica _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:48:00 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Aggressiveness Do you think martial artists as a whole or maybe just competitors have an aggressive personality which attributes to our competitive nature. Do you think that it is possible to be a martial artist and not be aggressive. Even if someone appears to be non-aggressive do you think they maybe could have a passive/aggressive personality. I was just wondering if all of us have some inherent aggressiveness within us that attracts us to the arts and that we have a need to release this aggressiveness in a civilized manner. jamaica _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: blocks can be more than blocks A minor correction... "... he claims to have learned from (I believe) Oyata. Now there are controversies surrounding this claim since the person he claims to have learned from speaks hardly any English and Dillman did not speak any Japanese." From what a good fiend just send me: "... Also, Oyata speaks nice broken English. Good enough to make an off color remark to my female training partner at the seminar I attended." Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Tony Preston Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:27:06 -0500 Subject: [none] >From: jeremyt@atfi.com >Subject: the_dojang: Blocks Are Not Hidden Nerve Strikes > I am writting in response to the belief that blocks in forms are > hidden secret nerve strikes. Not nerves... but then, that is a common misunderstanding...:) > > There is no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny, no Tooth Fairy, and NO > SECRET HIDDEN TECHNIQUES. Yes there are various ways of using your > blocking techniques, but the great masters of the past did not sit > there and think of secret techniques to hide in forms to bewilder > future generations. I can't say if they did or did not... The view that many of the people I have read says they did hide, plan, design the forms to teach things that can be interperted at several levels. > ...my guess is that they will charge you a $h!+ load of money > to learn them. save yourself the trouble. Whatever secret technique > that you are learning is being taught to others all around the world. Funny, It only cost me $35 for a seminars, and the teacher was great, It started me on the path of understanding alot I did not know... > please provide the scientific proof or even on very good theory on how > they would work. I always keep my mind open and would be interested > to see it. > Jermey, A block can be a strike, a move in a form can be taken to be many different techniques... What you need to do is look beyond Dillman and see that many teachers do instruct their students in the meanings of the moves in the forms. If you wish to discuss how some of these techniques work, I can give you my western medical understanding. I have applied what I have learned and some of it does work... Contact me directly in email and I will share with you. My email address is apreston@k2nesoft.com, I am no expert, just a student that has learned a couple of things. I have been studing the information provided to me on mailing lists and various books by people like Dillman, Montaigue, and others. I am not an expert in pressure points, but I do know that they do work and have seen examples of how to apply the moves in a form to techinques that attack those points, In one seminar, and not a very expensive one either, I learned several techniques that were applied directly from moves in a Pyong-An form. The applications were simple and direct. I have taken a new look at my forms and tried to see beyond the simple "a block is only a block". I have decided that for the beginner, that is true, for the advanced student, the block becomes a strike, for the more advanced student, the block becomes a strike to a point... For example, during practice, we were doing knife defense. I found myself in a position described on a mailing list so I went with it... I had stepped inside the knife attack, blocked the arm, then controled the knife by grabbing the wrist, thumb on the tendons in the middle of the wrist just below the hand. At the same time, my other hand did a light strike to the same arm just below the elbow, in the middle. It was a light strike, with a knuckle hitting just about the middle. The person I was working with, yelled, and dropped to his knees. It shocked me and him... We then repeated it with several people and found that in about 2/3's of the people it worked. I can see several "applications" where a similar movement occurs in the forms... it might be just my imagination... Another example, we were practicing headlock escapes. We have a rather muscular, young man that is particularly difficult to get out of his headlock We did some "live" grappling and me being the same size(more fat than muscle) I got paired with him... He had trouble with my headlock, but not as much as mine... Anyway, I was thinking about how certain techniques in the forms were similar to the moves I was being taught in the forms (chul-gi or as the okinawain form Naihanchi) only as grappling moves on the ground! Again, this might just be my imagination... The interesting thing is that I also found that by proper use of a pressure point (I was proud of myself, I figured this one out on my own...) I made three people literally jump off of me after they were told to put me in a headlock and hold on... Maybe I am imagining things, it is all in my head... However, I have learned things about my forms in the last two years that have opened my eyes... I no longer have a closed mind that keeps thinking a block is only a block and those Masters of Old did not hide things for me to find... Realize also, as neat as some of the things I have been taugh are, they would not be all that practical unless you do them instinctively. Some don't seem all that realistic, I can see better things to do to stop my opponent. However, I have started to see that the Bunkai is there if you look for it. I am only a lowly 1st dan, what do I know, I should not presume to instruct anyone... My only thought is to show you some of the light I have seen. My appologies to the list for this long message... - -- - -- Tony Preston, Team *AMIGA*, Linux developer since 1996 - -- Custom Services, P. O. Box 254, Moorestown, NJ 08055 - -- The Amiga Zone BBS (609) 953-8159 ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: pressure points > I have been studing the information provided to me on mailing lists and > various books by people like Dillman, Montaigue, and others. I am not an > expert in pressure points, but I do know that they do work and have seen > examples > of how to apply the moves in a form to techinques that attack those points, A prime example of pressure points is what is taught to LEOs (cops) in PPCT (Pressure Point Control Tactics) or in Eskrima (the Inayan System of Eskrima) as PSNA (Pressure Sensitive Nerve Areas). These are 14 basic pressure points on the head/neck/arms/torso/legs. They work, they work very well (Dave Steffen, would you like to describe what one felt like to you? :) , and they are even safe enough for liability concerned police departments to teach and use. Those in HKD/KSW/HRD are most likely well versed in pressure points. At least Hapkido is replete with them. > Maybe I am imagining things, it is all in my head... However, I have learned > things about my forms in the last two years that have opened my eyes... I > no longer have a closed mind that keeps thinking a block is only a block and > those Masters of Old did not hide things for me to find... IMHO this is part of what martial arts are all about. Going beyond what your instructor taught you, hopefully even beyond what they know/knew. This is the only way we will continue to grow the arts. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:16:09 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Creatine Some New info on an old thread you might find interesting. Eric Mueller *** Creatine may not be good as thought WASHINGTON (AP) - The supplement creatine is not the muscle builder and performance booster that many athletes believe it is, the chairman of a panel of experts has concluded. "The expectations for creatine far outweigh the returns," said Ron Terjung, professor of physiology at the University of Missouri, Columbia. Terjung chaired a roundtable on creatine supplementation at the American College of Sports Medicine in Indianapolis. The roundtable's opinions will be shared at the sports medicine organization's annual meeting June 5 in Seattle. Researchers have found performance improvements in laboratory tests involving sudden bursts of very strenuous activity, Terjung said. But the improvements are under specific conditions, and they don't match up with what most athletes do, he said. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2559750081-e0b ------------------------------ From: Timothy Bruening Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: I Was The Senior Student! I am an International Taekwondo Council Orange Belt at Rodness' Karate Center in Davis. Last Thursday (May 27) at noon, I was the senior student, and thus got to command the instructor (Mrs Rodness) to recite the tenant of Taekwondo and bow. In fact, I was the only student at the start of the class. I wondered what would happen at the end of the class when it came time to bow to the senior student. Would I have to order myself to face myself and bow to myself? How could I face myself? Mrs Rodness said that in such cases, the student and teacher bow to each other. Fortunately, a Low-Green Belt came in late, leaving me the senior student, but providing someone else to face me and bow to me. ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:44:10 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Forms Competition > > > From: "Jamaica Power" > Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 15:47:41 PDT > Subject: the_dojang: Relative Strength for Women In Forms Competition > > What would be some of your best suggestions for instructing a female > to improve her relative strength,kiai, and overall demonstration > of a form especially if she has to compete against a larger, stronger > male m.a. > ......... > > We all know that the form should be judged on the strength for > the size and weight of the competitor but judges invariably see > the strength of the man and will award him the gold especially if they > are directly competing against one another. Jamaica, for once I gotta disagree (at least from my limited experience) First, Forms (Poomse) should Not be Judged on Strength, but on (and I paraphrase the Ref manual): Beginning & Ending on the same spot Executing POWERFUL and Speedy techniques mental concentration Focused Eye & head Movements Accurate Targets Proper Inhalation & Exhalation Balance Rhythm Synchronization of body Movements Taekwondoistic attitude OK, so that's what THE BOOK says, in reality what happens? Well, I think that will probably hinge on the skill, knowledge, integrity, of the individual Judge/Referee as well as what he or she most likes to see in a Form. For example, I was recently scorekeeping at a tournaments Poomse competition in which two color belt kids demonstrated the same form. Kid #1 Scored 7.2; 7.5; 7.4. Kid #2 scored 6.1; 6.2; and 7.9. I asked the Judge who had awarded Kid #2 a 7.9 Why he valued that Kids performance above the other, given that Kid #2 finished well off his mark and (at least to me) appeared a bit sloppy and hesitant in his form. The Judge replied "but Did you hear his Kiap? It was so loud and strong and powerful!" I know I personally "Value" Power and Crisp, Defined movements, over say... ending on exactly the same spot,... or a deafening Kiap. I also know I have watched small Kids perform next to Teenagers/young adults and clearly felt that the Younger (and obviously 'less strong') Kid outperformed the older, 'stronger' competitor because the younger Kid had more "Power". One of the "Best" forms I ever saw was a female probably 120-130 lbs who performed her form (I was unfamiliar with it), for a Forms Grand championship (Not a USTU sanctioned Tournament). She competed against Adults and Children, Male & Female (All Black Belts). Her form exuded so much power it made the hair stand up on the back of my neck - you could see the tension in her forearms and neck; and her body was rock solid in its stance. As I recall she came in second - - I know she didn't win, and I truly think the only reason she did not win was because her form was "different" (Everyone else had done Koryo, Keumgang, or Taebak - hers may have been a Palgwe form but I'm not sure) > > So I guess this is a training tip question and also just your personal > feelings on this as you compare men and women. What suggestions would you > give the women in your class (all ages) for > optimal form performance. As I said earlier, I "Value" Power in a form. I think both men and women, boys and girls can benefit from similar training techniques. I believe however, that along with the generic "Drills" one must incorporate individually focused training for each and every student. When Jason (My son) was a White belt, studying his first form, I had him do his form (so that I could see where his punches and kicks were focused). I Then held a pillow at the points where his punches and Kicks were to be focused. I Helped him with proper body & Extremity position for each count of the form, and let him deliver a strong powerful blow to an actual target (the pillow). I truly think this helped him develop his power. (Of course now he is helping me with my form(s), but that's another story........ : ) Well, that's my 2 cents.... Thanks for letting me bend your ear (as it were) Eric Mueller ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #288 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.