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Subject:   The_Dojang-Digest V6 #292
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The_Dojang-Digest            Thurs, 3 June 1999         Vol 06 : Num 292

In this issue:

       Re: the_dojang: new dojang
       the_dojang: Politics and the Martial Arts
       the_dojang: Re: Teacher's Pest
       the_dojang: USA Results from the World TKD Championships (fwd)
       the_dojang: Re: Sparring Tips
       the_dojang: Re: V6 #291: Teacher's Pest
       the_dojang: Re: V6 #291: new dojang
       the_dojang: Re: new dojang 
       the_dojang: .
.........................................................................

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 07:08:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: the_dojang: new dojang

> My question is, has anyone ever encountered this before?  Is there a
> proper protocol for handling it (other than keeping one's mouth shut
> and, hopefully, allowing your work to be a credit to your instructor)?
> The whole feel to the evening somewhat diminished my confidence, which
> isn't usually a problem.   ;~)   I'll be back there on Monday; the
> training is worth more than my discomfort.  But any advice is
> appreciated.
 
Hang in there.  You just learned an advanced lesson a bit early.  That being
many schools teach the same things a little (sometimes a lot) different.

When starting out we often believe that the way we are learning is the only
way.  Just as when in the US we think a toilet always looks like a toilet.
Travel around the world and you'll see that is not the case.

Different schools will often teach the same form or same technique or the
same 'traditional' opening/closing of class just a little differently.  In
most cases the differences are just differences and neither is right or
wrong.  It is just that you noticed that a bit earlier than most.  Those in
the other school possibly view your differences as being incorrect, but it
is just because they haven't learned this lesson yet.

Ray Terry
raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com


------------------------------

From: Nyneerland@aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:17:13 EDT
Subject: the_dojang: Politics and the Martial Arts

> Does anyone else know of any other practicing martial artists in high level 
> political positions in any state that might aid us in future legislative 
> issues.

Jamaica-
Fist off, I just wanted to extend a "Thanks!" for all of your interesting 
posts and great questions- I enjoy reading them and learning through you!


In regards to Political figures involved with martial arts, I have seen 
several articles covering Arnold Schwarzenegger's involvement (of all 
people!) in the Martial Arts- he apparently promotes an event called the 
"Arnold Martial Arts Festival" which is well-attended by many MA stars and 
practitioners. (- also covered in the July issue of Black Belt magazine) 
Arnold says he believes Martial Arts gets people in shape like no other sport 
really can. In the 80's Arnold was the head of the President's Council for 
Physical Fitness- so I'd say he's still a rather politically connected guy. 
Hopefully he continues his good works in MA Promotion.
Tang Soo!
Anita Conlon

------------------------------

From: Jamaica Power <jamaica_power@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 09:38:32 PDT
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Teacher's Pest

Losing a student means that you have failed them as a teacher; that's why it 
is a big deal, regardless of whether you are a for-profit school or not.
I used to take it very personally, losing a student, because it meant that I 
had not met their expectations (by not asking the right questions and 
listening and mining-for the right answers during their initial interview) 
or perhaps not given them the appropriate expectations of what their life 
would be like in my dojahng.

Sincerely,
Steven Gilmore
=====================================================

Wow you place an enormous burden on yourself (IMHO).  To a point I agree 
with you but when an instructor gives their all then you should feel very 
good about yourself even if you do lose the student, although it's not a 
pleasant experience to go through and there is usually a great deal of 
sadness.

To me it's like having children and watching them grow up.  Good parents can 
do absolutely everything for their kids.  Practically kill themselves to 
make sure the kids turn out right and everything works for them.  But then 
there is a point where you realize you have given so very much and you have 
to let go and realize that kids (and students) have a responsibility and an 
obligation too during this learning process.  It's a team effort.

They make their own choices and reap the consequences of their choices.  And 
if the kids make some not so wise choices and we know we did our best;  we 
can't keep assuming their responsibilities or the associated guilt that is 
sometimes put upon us.

I do think though when a student leaves it is an excellent time for 
self-reflection of the student and the process.  And after that I think we 
just need to file it in our history books.

Respectfully,
jamaica




_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:24:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: the_dojang: USA Results from the World TKD Championships (fwd)

FYI...

Results from the World TKD Championships being held in Alberta Canada are
coming in right now.  See the below URL for hour-by-hour details.

Ray

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Morning Group,

I have posted a page on the World Taekwondo Championships web site for
USA Results (as they happen!)

The URL is: http://www.glondon.com/worldtkd/usa.html



------------------------------

From: Paul Rogers <buck@austin.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:54:08 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring Tips

>>> Adam Gibson wrote:
Anyone interested in some great Sparring Tips and Fight Strategy please feel
free to check out the following site:

http://members.tripod.com/martial_arts_tips
<<<

Those were good food for thought, although, for me, it's a bit easier said than
done....!

This made me curious, though:  how many folks (especially ATA'ers) have sparring
sessions at their school where they actually practice combinations, etc., with a
partner?  Our Friday sparring class is generally "pick a partner and have at it",
which is OK, but is not, I believe, as beneficial as practicing drills.
Especially when you partner up with the young 8th gup who makes up in Enter the
Dragon attitude what he lacks in control... 8?).

Just curious...thanks...

Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX (ATA)


------------------------------

From: samiller@Bix.Com
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:18:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #291: Teacher's Pest

>>>Other than asking the person to leave, which I suspect most
>>>people would not want to do
>>Why not?  I understand that for those who try to make a living teaching
>>m.a. the loss of a student is a big deal.
>
>Losing a student means that you have failed them as a teacher; that's why
>it is a big deal, regardless of whether you are a for-profit school or not.
>I used to take it very personally, losing a student, because it meant that
>I had not met their expectations (by not asking the right questions and
>listening and mining-for the right answers during their initial interview)
>or perhaps not given them the appropriate expectations of what their life
>would be like in my dojahng.
Well, in the case cited it appeared that the student in question aspired to
gain status by politics and infuence rather than by any real
accomplishments.  While I suppose it is possible this could reflect some
instructional lack, I think it more likely to be a personality defect,
especially if this was an adult.  Generally, your  statement is correct,
but I would say also incomplete.  I would view the hypothetical case of
losing a student as a mutual failure of teacher and student.  After all,
there are limits to how thoroughly you can understand a student, and they
you, before enrollment takes place.  There are also responsibilities of
committment on both parts.  I also think that under some circumstances it
could be worse for the student and the school to remain than to leave.  I
hope you don't view any student who leaves before attaining some arbitrary
degree of accomplishment as necessarily a failure on your part.  Fate
doesn't always allow us to go as far in an endeavor as we had originally
envisioned.  When I was 16, I studied judo.  Although I ceased to attend
classes after a little more than a year, the beneficial effects of that
training stayed with me for the 30-odd years that passed before I started
training in TSD.  I would certainly hope that my former instructor didn't
think _he_ failed _me_.
===
Tang Soo!
Scott

------------------------------

From: samiller@Bix.Com
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:18:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #291: new dojang

>I've been in TSD for a short time (7 mos.) and have tested/promoted to
>6th Gup during that time.  Never having been in any other M.A., but
>recognizing that I met the criteria in the Association gup manual, I
>didn't question my promotions or my instructor's judgment with respect
>to them.  (We don't approach the instructor about testing; he tells us
>when we will test.)  I knew that I promoted faster than other students
>in the dojang, but I assumed it was due to having nearly perfect
>attendance and practicing/studying every night.
In the belt system used at the TSD school at which I study, this would make
you a green belt, no stripe, and you could have qualified to test for this
at 6 months (although just barely, and most students don't progress that
quickly).  So if you have been attending and practicing as diligently as
you profess, I'm sure you earned your rank;>)
>
>My dojang closes for the summer, so (with my instructor's blessing) I
>decided to keep in practice by attending the closest dojang in our same
>Association (20 miles away) for the summer.  Last night was my first
>evening there.  The instructors were very gracious, and the students
>asked the usual polite questions before class (where are you from? how
>long have you been in TSD? what dojang?).  Several (non-instructors)
>made comments that gave me the impression that they questioned my right
>to the rank I held, by virtue of how short a time I had been in TSD.
Sounds suspiciously like sour grapes to me.  Or possibly an unintended
by-product of their instructor making comparisons between his school and
yours.
>That left me feeling a little tentative.  And, it didn't help that, they
>pronounce the Korean terms slightly differently, and the order,
>combinations, etc., were unfamiliar, so I was not a stunning example of
>my own instructor's careful teaching, on that first night.
Except in tightly controlled organizations (and many times even there)
"cosmetic" differences between schools are common.
> The instructors seemed to take my awkwardness as a given for the differences
>between dojangs (and I started on a test night, no less), but some of
>the students gave pretty arched looks.
I would give much more weight to the reaction of the individuals
responsible for attributing those differences (the instructors) than to the
"rank-and-file", particularly students at mid-gup levels who typically
think they know more than they actually do (was one not too long ago
myself;>)
>
>My question is, has anyone ever encountered this before?  Is there a
>proper protocol for handling it (other than keeping one's mouth shut
>and, hopefully, allowing your work to be a credit to your instructor)?
>The whole feel to the evening somewhat diminished my confidence, which
>isn't usually a problem.   ;~)   I'll be back there on Monday; the
>training is worth more than my discomfort.  But any advice is
>appreciated.
My advice is to be happy and confident in your progress, and to take the
explicit and implicit criticism of students from this school with a large
grain of salt;>)
===
Tang Soo!
Scott

------------------------------

From: Paul Rogers <buck@austin.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:38:31 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Re: new dojang 

>>> Joan Bostic wrote
[snip]
Is there a
proper protocol for handling it (other than keeping one's mouth shut
and, hopefully, allowing your work to be a credit to your instructor)?
The whole feel to the evening somewhat diminished my confidence, which
isn't usually a problem.   ;~)
<<<

I don't know about protocol, but I went through a similar experience.  After 6
months of training in one school in S. Florida (like you, 6 days/week), I wound up
transferring to central Texas.  I was lucky, though, as I didn't perceive too much
skepticism from my fellow students in the new school.

I was wondering if you're starting as a white belt in the new school, or coming in
at some agreed-to higher gup level.  My family started over when we joined the new
school (in the context of a hoped-for lifetime of training, what does a few extra
months/years to a particular grade matter,  was our philosphy), so that probably
helped us, fitting-in (and ego-) wise...!

Best of luck in your training...

Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX (ATA)


------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <rterry@best.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 12:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: the_dojang: .


------------------------------

End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #292
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