From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #294 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 4 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 294 In this issue: the_dojang: Corner Refs the_dojang: Re: Sparring Tips the_dojang: Re: Corner judges the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #293 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #293 the_dojang: Re: A Little question about corner referees the_dojang: Silly Thought/Question the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DMazor1026@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:58:49 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Corner Refs In a message dated 99-06-04 10:46:42 EDT, you write: << Other than looking nice, what exactly is the rationale for having the corner ref's seated in chairs, especially now that there are usually not 4 as there used to be (in most tournaments). I'm sure there is a logical reason (then again maybe not). But wouldn't it be more advantageous to have ref's on their feet and covering their bases so to speak (like in baseball...yeah I like all sports)! It would help them see more of the sparring activity from broader advantage points, and it would help some of the ref's keep more alert. >> Seems to me there are plusses and minuses. You probably would be more alert if you were standing like refs in other sports (hmmn, just remembered they sit in tennis), but the downside is that unlike basketball, football, etc. you're reffing not just for a few hours, but all day. Nine hours or more standing, and you'll be distracted by your sore feet. Still, you bring up some good points. - --Dave visit http://www.aautaekwondo.org ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 10:05:32 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring Tips >>> Jamaica Power wrote: I would also be like to know the length of these matches. Both the random sparring sessions and the drill practices. I've visited schools where they are very formal and timed and I've seen others that do the random sparring for not even a minute and then switch partners. And continue to switch about 5x in this fashion. This also included adults sparring children; well actually a total mix. <<< The Friday sparring class at the school at which I currently train has variable length matches, I'd estimate about 2-5 minutes. We'd then switch partners and go at it again. At the end of the class, the instructor (usually the school owner) would ask us what we'd learned this time, then emphasize various points. There's a separate kids' sparring class on that night. Sometimes we'll have light sparring during the course of a class, but that's mainly just to work on technique (contact is 'forbidden'). In my initial TKD school, we suited up and sparred at the end of every class, usually one or two partners, about 2-3 min. each. Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX (ATA) ------------------------------ From: Ray Wagner Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 10:11:29 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Corner judges Jamaica asks: > Other than looking nice, what exactly is the rationale for having the > corner ref's seated in chairs, especially now that there are usually not 4 > as there used to be (in most tournaments). ... > It would help them see more of the sparring activity from broader advantage > points, and it would help some of the ref's keep more alert. In the tournaments that I've judged as a corner I've been encouraged to get up and move around. In the ones where I had to compete first and then judge, I sincerely wished I could have had a chair. ;) One thing comes to mind as a reason and it's more from a competitor POV than a judge. Having 4 judges seated in the corners defines the corners. For me it's a lot easier to see a guy sitting in a chair out of the corner of my eye than to look down and see where the line is and tell if I'm out or not. I'm sure this isn't the reason that things got started that way, but it's something I've noticed. I would imagine that the reason things are that way now is because that's how they always were. A lame excuse at best, but one that is far too common. Ray (non-Terry) ------------------------------ From: "James R. Donley" Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 12:26:01 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #293 Hi All, There has been numerous excellent posts recently and I wanted to rely to at least a couple of them. :) Response #1 - Paul Rogers recently wrote: >This made me curious, though: how many folks (especially ATA'ers) have sparring >sessions at their school where they actually practice combinations, etc., with a >partner? Our Friday sparring class is generally "pick a partner and have at it", >which is OK, but is not, I believe, as beneficial as practicing drills. >Especially when you partner up with the young 8th gup who makes up in Enter the >Dragon attitude what he lacks in control... 8?). We typically are assigned a partner (partly determined by size, part by rank, part by a good blocker paired with someone who lacks control) and then do 20 of an assigned kick. This is then follwed by 20 of another technique. This is usually topped off with 20 kicking where you choose a kick depending on the placement of your partner. Sparring is typically reserved for students of 4th or 5th Kup (if memory serves) and does not happen in a typical class as all belts are welcome in any class. When we have 1, 3 or free sparring it is non contact except during testing. To counter this lack of exposure we have a set of dedicated sparring forms (In Young Ryu.) We can disect these forms and extract combinations from them. More info on these forms may be gotten from our web site. ***************************************************** Response # 2 - Jamaica recently wrote: >It's the black belt divisions. I have one young very enthusiastic and >healthy black belt jumping up and down waiting for his competition. So I'm >tending to some things and I turn around and there comes his competitor. >Now this individual comes into the ring in a wheel chair. Now there are no >specific rules or guidelines for me at this time. I look over and see a few >GM's and Master Instructors glued on me and circling the ring watching. I >assume I got this situation because of my experience. They give me the nod >to just go ahead. It was a blackbelet sparring match. >So I dealt with it as I always do. But reflecting back this moment still >brings issues that need to be addressed in an intelligent manner and I >really felt put on the spot myself even with my years of experience. I >welcome any thoughts but if not, thanks for listening because I really >wanted to post this story for a very long time but was struggling for the >words to do it. This is quite the dilema. One of our basic tenents is Indominable Spirit, a trait expressed by the wheelchair bound competitor. However I also am a firm believer is safety. The presence of a wheelchair in a match offers, in my mind, too may opportunities for a competitor to be injured. If I were the healthy competitor I'd point out the risk of injury to not only my opponent but myself. If my concerns were ignored I would bow out as the risk to my safety caused by the wheelchair exceeds the risk of sparring an opponent on equal footing. As for what an official ruling should be: I've always believed that one person's rights end where anothers begin. In this situation, the wheelchair bound competitors right to compete ends where someone runs the risk of injury due the presence of the wheelchair. Jim Donley 1st Kup Secretary USA Tae Kwon Do Black Belt Center www.enteract.com/~jrdonley/tkd/index.html ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 11:23:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #293 > > > From: Jamaica Power > Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:49:42 PDT > Subject: the_dojang: A different experience as a ref > > This happened quite a few years ago but I'll be honest, I can certainly see > it happening again. So I share with you the following situation (true > story) for you to contemplate or comment on... or not. > ...snip... > Now I check the competitor bouncing up and down for safety and then I go to > the wheelchair person. I check as best I can and ask if he is ready to > proceed and he gets more angry with me for even checking and yells "just get > on with the match." > At which point, I would have stepped back and called a warning on that competitor. ATA's tournament rules specifically require the competitors to show all courtesy to the judges, and require the judges to issue warnings when that is not done. If the violation is flagrant enough, the competitor can be disqualified from the match and I guarantee that individual will be in deeeep kimchee with a whole bunch of high ranks on his case. There's no excuse for rudeness like that. ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 17:28:50 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: A Little question about corner referees In a message dated 99-06-04 10:50:11 EDT, you write: << Other than looking nice, what exactly is the rationale for having the corner ref's seated in chairs, especially now that there are usually not 4 as there used to be (in most tournaments). I'm sure there is a logical reason (then again maybe not). But wouldn't it be more advantageous to have ref's on their feet and covering their bases so to speak (like in baseball...yeah I like all sports)! It would help them see more of the sparring activity from broader advantage points, and it would help some of the ref's keep more alert. >> Ohmigod, Jamaica! This is one of those "Why didn't I think of that?" questions. Of all the stuff I've seen about TKD lately, this is one of the best ideas. Think of it! Refs actually having a view of the competition they're judging. It boggles the mind. Guess you can tell, I like the idea. And now that you've brought it up, I also wonder about the rationale behind sitting in your own little corner. Thanks, Sally Baughn CBAUGHN@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Jamaica Power Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:40:50 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Silly Thought/Question Why is it that at demos at say half-time at a tournament; well why is it we do martial arts demos? I think we're probably the only sport that does that during a break. And it could be that maybe I just need to go to more tournaments that have different demos? Are there any? And if half-time is not about martial arts then what do you offer the audience instead? Jamaica _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 15:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #294 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.