From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #301 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 8 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 301 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Should Your Instructor Touch You the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #300 the_dojang: Madny the_dojang: Results from Dutch and Spanish Opens the_dojang: Quote the_dojang: RE: ITF Master/Grandmaster the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jamaica Power Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 07:57:52 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Should Your Instructor Touch You >>>>>>>>I think the real question is how to do something about it when this >>>>>>>>happens. Sandy>>>>> ========================================= Affirmative. Glad you brought this up. As of this morning I have now received 5 different personal email messages with personal stories and people seeking solutions. All input welcome. Jamaica _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "James R. Donley" Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:23:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #300 >From: samiller@Bix.Com >Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:07:33 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #297: Tang Soo Do/Moo Duk Kwan > >>2) I just saw a school affiliated with both the Moo Duk Kwan and the >>WTF. Does this mean that Tang Soo Do and WTF TKD have the >>same basic techniques or something like that ? >>(This is the link: http://www.enteract.com/~jrdonley/tkd/index.html) >Wow. That's a pretty ambitious curriculum claim: Tang Soo Do, WTF Tae >Kwon Do, and a 60-form independent martial art, too. I'd be a little >skeptical about how completely each traditional art is covered absent >objective verification. I believe there is at least one In Young Ryu >practitioner among the Dojang subscribers, perhaps some education will >emanate from that source. IMHO the use of the term "Tang Soo Do" in this >kind of context is questionable, and is the main reason that GM Hwang Ki >trademarked and implemented the name "Soo Bahk Do". Hi all, I'm allways one to plug my school and In Young Ryu! :) A bit of a preface: The head of my school, GM Kim, Soon Chul, is a bit of a renegade, he changes WTF forms, lobbies the Kukkiwon for change, etc. in a effort to advance the Art of Tae Kwon Do. He is Korean and was trained in Korea. He has instructed in Europe and eventually settled here in the Chicago area. If you are interested, his resume is available on the web site. The following is from the web site: "USA Tae Kwon Do Black Belt Center focuses on Tae Kwon Do as a Martial Art as opposed to a sport. As such, the Center follows the practices of Moo Duk Kwon, one of the five original Tae Kwon Do schools. This discipline teaches the art of Tang Soo Do which, to this day, is distinct from Tae Kwon Do. Curriculum includes World Tae Kwon Do Federation (WTF) forms, 10 "Basic" forms, In Young Ryu, sparring, stretching and conditioning. In most situations, classes and sparring are non contact." This may have created a bit of confusion, please let me know if it has. Master Kim maintains Moo Duk Kwon in the school name but he does not (at this time) train us TSD forms. As I understand it, he uses the teaching methodology/techniques of MDK and would assume (bad Jim) that it also is a reflection of his heritage. My fear as I was developing the site was that someone might expect to be taught TSD so I added a blurb on what the curriculum includes (from above: World Tae Kwon Do Federation (WTF) forms, 10 "Basic" forms, In Young Ryu, sparring, stretching and conditioning.) As for the completeness of traditional training: As a student begins in our school, they are trained in basic techniques that are used in WTF (down block, middle punch, etc.) as well as techniques that, as far as I know are not (hammer fist, pushes, etc.) In addition to basic techniques, students learn our Kibon (basic) forms which ingrain WTF techniques and In Young Ryu forms. At 5th Kup (first promotion from White Belt is 7th Kup) students begin to learn the Tae-Keuk forms and continue learning In Young Ryu and WTF techniques. In my opinion (this is the only school I've trained in so I could be wrong), training is expanded beyond the traditional but not at the expense of traditional. Several of our upper belts have come to Master Kim from other schools and fit in once they master the modifications to WTF forms and get a handle on In Young Ryu. To date, Master Kim has not broken down a learning progression for In Young Ryu (i.e. you will know IYR 1-3 for your yellow belt, 4-8 for orange, etc.) I believe the highest forms anyone (except Master Kim and his son) know is 14. That person is testing for their 3rd Dan in November. In contrast most of the color belts know IYR 1-10 and a number know 1-13. When these were introduced to us about a year ago Master Kim indicated that we would learn 12 a year and that he wanted everyone to know all of the forms taught in that year. This seems like a problem for White Belts starting out years behind everyone else. Kind of like a White Belt trying to learn WTF forms up to Bat-Sai. So in summary, one might think that some traditional training is lost. However IF something is lost in the early stages in training, it is replaced by something else. As students progress though the curriculum, any "missing" training will be recovered before Black Belt testing so in the long run nothing is lost but much is gained. I hope this helps. If there is confusion caused by my site, please let me know via private email so I know I need to make modifications to it. Jim Donley 1st Kup Secretary USA Tae Kwon Do Black Belt Center p.s. Yes, it is a VERY ambitious/rigorous curriculum for those who choose to put in the effort. ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:40:39 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Madny In a message dated 6/7/99 9:52:33 AM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << << American Mandy Meloon was dragged out of the ring by an upset U.S. manager and disqualified Friday from the World Taekwondo Championships at the University of Alberta. >> This may be the most bizarre situation I've heard of in sports since Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Whatshername. Can we hope this "manager" won't be going to Croatia? >> Actually my understanding is the frustration was with the judges who were not scoring points for the US players. I think the article makes it look like Mandy was doing something wrong and to my knowledge she was not. ------------------------------ From: Jim Muir Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:04:03 +1000 Subject: the_dojang: Results from Dutch and Spanish Opens I have had a number of folks visiting my web site (www.taekwondoaustralia.org.au) asking for results of the Dutch and Spanish Opens held earlier this year. I have not been able to find the results with a quick web search - does anyone know where I can find these results? Jim Muir jim.muir@gpo.com ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:02:14 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Quote This comes from Mr. Rick Kirkham, on another list that I am on. I thought some here might appreciate this quote; "To make a very long story shorter he learned the hard way that with the knowledge of life and death comes the wisdom to respect both." This was part of a discussion regarding someone who challenged this instructor's ability to effectively utilize 'deadly force', and like I said, I thought some here might enjoy this thought. Have a great day! Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Renee Chizek Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:42:19 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: ITF Master/Grandmaster I've heard various version of the Master/Grandmaster status within ITF. My Grandmaster (GM BC Yu) has been a Grandmaster (7th Dan) for more than = 10 years. He studied directly with General Choi. My main instructor will = be testing for Master (4th Dan) this fall. General Choi was the only 9th Dan until recently when Jhoon Ree and one = other (forgot his name) became 9th. But he was not the only GrandMaster. Renee Chizek chizek@genecodes.com 3rd Gup ITF TKD ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #301 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.