From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #304 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 9 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 304 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #302 the_dojang: RE: Hwa Rang Legends the_dojang: M.A. as a social activity the_dojang: Characteristics of Bricks the_dojang: A What Would You Do Question. the_dojang: Kadena de Mano, Lev 1 certification seminar in July the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James R. Donley" Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:47:46 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #302 >From: Tom Marker >Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:37:00 -0400 >Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #301 > >>This may have created a bit of confusion, please let me know if it has. >>Master Kim maintains Moo Duk Kwon in the school name but he does not (at >>this time) train us TSD forms. As I understand it, he uses the teaching >>methodology/techniques of MDK and would assume (bad Jim) that it also is a >>reflection of his heritage. >>My fear as I was developing the site was that someone might expect to be >>taught TSD so I added a blurb on what the curriculum includes (from above: >>World Tae Kwon Do Federation (WTF) forms, 10 "Basic" forms, In Young Ryu, >>sparring, stretching and conditioning.) > >This seems very confusing to me. It also seems to imply that Master Kim is >trained to instruct MDK (which he may or may not be.. can't tell from the >site) I'm pretty certain that he's trained to instruct everything that he teaches us. We pretty much believe that he's forgotten more than he'll ever be able to train us. >I think by saying "the Center follows the practices of Moo Duk Kwan, one of >the five original TKD schools" you are claiming to be something you are >not. Why not just say "we train in a traditional manner." this seems much >better than using MDK in a generic sense, which could offend people who do >train MDK. It also sounds like you're saying MDK evolved from TKD, which >is inaccurate. By no means am I trying offend anyone nor am I trying to imply that MDK evolved from TKD. It is a reference to MDK being one of the five original kwons, not one of the later one, and that we train using methodology that had been used by MDK. >It appears that Master Kim does teach traditional MDK/TSD forms as he >requires one to learn Naihanchis, Bassai, Sip Soo, Jindo, Rohai, O Sip Sa >Bo, Kong Sang Koon, Jion, etc. These forms are required for Dan level >ranks. I don't think WTF uses these forms at all, do they? If the above forms are TSD forms then I have been misinformed about their history. As I understand things, WTF would not use these forms but many other people would know far better than I. As I mentioned in my original post, Master Kim is a bit of a renegade and to me, this explains why he trains both TSD and WTF forms in his school. >What I'm wondering is that if he believes so much in the heritage and >methodology of the MDK, then why not teach MDK instead of TKD? Tae Kwon >Do, especially competition-oriented Tae Kwon Do, is very different than >"old-school" Moo Duk Kwan. As you pointed out, he does teach TSD forms at our Dan levels. Additionally, we are not a sport/competition oriented school (I'm not sure where you got this, if it was from the website let me know where so that can be changed). I do not know his motivations for why he does what he does other than to advance the Art. As a humble student, I am not in a position to question his authority. There is a maxim of an object being greater than the sum of its individual parts that may apply. >I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just trying to figure out the >intentions... If you do both, great. If not, it seems like bad practice to >claim such lineage. I don't take your comments as insulting. I've heard of numerous fly by night schools/instructors claiming to be something they are not so I can understand the concern about misrepresenting one's afilliation. As you've indicated that he does teach TSD forms I believe that there is not a conflict with the MDK moniker. So far as you've indicated, I think the only change that needs to be made is to include TSD forms as part of our curriculum. Jim Donley 1st Kup Secretary USA Tae Kwon Do Black Belt Center http://www.enteract.com/~jrdonley/tkd/index.html ------------------------------ From: Don.Hahn@phs.com Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:11:32 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Hwa Rang Legends >>Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 03:09:03 +0300 Subject: the_dojang: korean ninja Greetings all I am a new member from Romania - europe . I am interested in any serious information regarding some any kind of historical koreean "ninja" schools and methods besides the hwarang do legends .... Thanks a lot << There are many stories and legends out there. Be careful in generalizing. The Hwa Rang are historically documented fact. Legends about them, well, that's up to who you talk to. ------------------------------ From: Jamaica Power Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:26:09 PDT Subject: the_dojang: M.A. as a social activity I recently did the post on should your M.A. touch you. After reading through the digest post and my personal emails I've come to the following thought. Even in the most formal traditional setting I think an M.A. instructor should be very careful when they touch a student (male or female). Next I think what is happening is this. Many of us take m.a. and take it for the integrity the discipline, etc etc. Then there are those that take it for competition, others to improve their health. However, there is a group of people that take it ONLY as a social activity. This I know to be true. Now this is where some of the problems surface. Martial arts as a social activity is being greatly advertised now a days thanks to things like cardio kickboxing, Tae Bo, and what's the recent one Kai Tae or something? These people in the infomericals aren't exactly wearing dobaks and bowing to each other out of respect. Now I'm not saying those activities are bad but they are pulling in a new population into the martial arts arena with a totally different mindset of what m.a. is and what we are about. And it could be legally dangerous for our serious m.a. instructors. M.A. is beginning to take on the air of something that is trendy, short term, and cute and fits in well in a fitness studio. I think this is something we all need to consider. Not everyone is coming in with the same mentality and more so today then ever before. jamaica _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Jamaica Power Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:43:32 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Characteristics of Bricks I just read an article that stated that while one brick might require 120 pounds of force to break; another brick of identical dimensions and type could require 1200 pounds of force. Hey, if you're competing that is a significant difference hopefully not left to chance. Aha... now we now how the karate kid broke all those flaming bricks. jamaica _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Jamaica Power Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:02:51 PDT Subject: the_dojang: A What Would You Do Question. You have a young teenager black belt. Has been a black belt for while. She's bright, articulate, her forms are perfect and she's won tons of trophies for sparring and forms. She is mature for her age albeit short so she looks younger. She's incredibly respectful and dedicated. She's a natural talent. The Instructor of the dojang breaks up groups and tells her to take one adult group of red/black belts and help them with their forms. And she really does know and execute the forms better than anybody else in class (just about). She's that good. Good instructor too. The group she gets is a disrespectful clique. They think they're better than everyone else (and whew they are not). They are adults not teens. So she begins her instruction and some of them in the group make snide comments. She's strong but they got pretty mean. She can control a group but this was raw and nasty. She comes to you because you're her friend and a higher level black belt. You know the entire situation and individuals so you take her to the Master Instructor and have her explain what happened. He pats her on the head, patronizes her and doesn't defend her in any way. She's in tears. She asks you why? What happened? Now what would you tell her. jamaica _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Kadena de Mano, Lev 1 certification seminar in July Suro Mike Inay will be holding a Kadena de Mano (KdM) seminar on July 10/11, 1999, in Campbell, California (1 mile from San Jose, California, in the San Francisco Bay Area). Those successfully completing this two day seminar and passing the exam at the end will receive full Level 1 KdM Instructor Certification from Suro Inay. The cost of the two day seminar/certification is $275. Kadena De Mano is an Eskrima/FMA style that Suro Inay learned from the late GrandMaster Max Sarmiento. The literal translation of KdM is 'Chain of the Hands'. KdM is a combination of empty-hand and knife/dagger techniques. KdM covers basic and advanced hand and knife drills as well as permuted locks from the basic/advanced drills. Lock/flow/trap practice drills are stressed. Additional levels of certification are available after successful completion of Level 1. Those interested in attending or in obtaining more information should contact Suro Inay at eskrimador@aol.com. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #304 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.