From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #334 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 1 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 334 In this issue: the_dojang: Starting over the_dojang: Let's hear it for the old folks [was: Survey] the_dojang: ROK training the_dojang: Re: clarification the_dojang: Re: ROK Training the_dojang: Re: current survey the_dojang: Re: Respect the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Groff" Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 17:45:08 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Starting over >You start from scratch when you enter a dojang? Why. The student has been> >studying Taekwondo for ? many years and you expect them to start as a white> >belt just because they are no longer in a school but have decided to enter> >you dojang (mind you the forms are still the same). That is BULL!> No Mike--its called "marketing". - --CJ ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:59:36 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Let's hear it for the old folks [was: Survey] Patrick "the Terminator" Monahan wrote: >I started MA in my 30's. It seems TKD is a MA well suited to the >young and not-so gravity challenged. I'm not giving up by any means. >I'll just work harder. I started about the same time as a 15 year old >guy and so far we are progressing identically. Let's hear it for the old folks. Patrick attends the same dojang as I do, so I can vouch for him. He has made significant progress and has surprised many of us with his determination and spirit. >Most of the time *I feel* my skill matches my belt ranking. I find it >difficult to separate the belt color from the art itself. On one hand I tell myself and my TKD colleagues that it's not about the belt color or the stripe. But deep down I want to be promoted to the next color. Ah, the truth comes out now :-) Nice to see you post, Patrick. Keep up the hard work and sweat. Kamsa Hamnida, Stan Lim slim@employees.org ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 11:42:19 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: ROK training Mr. Boyd, I would just like to ask for clarification on something you mentioned. "Second dan shows real dedication to the style and third dans get pestered to start teaching somewhere. Fourth dans are pestered to start looking for a place to open a school..." Did you see a lot of this happening? From my short period there, I didn't quite notice this in the schools that I checked out. From what I saw, most third dans were still students and were not allowed to teach. I even had one friend at my dojang who was testing for his 5th dan, and had never taught a class in his life. Assisted, yes, but he did not feel that he was qualified to open his school. Practically every single dojang I visited in Seoul did not have an instructor that was under 6th dan. Even at Seoul Foreign School, which I attended, the instructor had 6th dan. I'd just be interested in knowing the minimum requirements or standards that Koreans usually have before opening their own dojang. Are they forced to by their parents or by their instructors to pursue this course of action? Do they have to have some sort of instructor's certification, and when do they usually sit for it? Please, anything else you can think of as well. I find that sort of funny considering that I'm testing for my second dan soon, and will be sitting for my instructor's certificate in September. Although I'm technically only an assistant at the moment, I have been handling my instructor's classes all by myself for the past 4 years. What are the minimum requirements in your respective organizations? Sincerely, Emil Fisk fiskej@pd.jaring.my ------------------------------ From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:14:33 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: clarification >From: No1IDIC@aol.com >Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:07:42 EDT >Subject: the_dojang: clarification > > Me: < average time frame to first dan is about 1 year.>> > > Anders: < regular schools for some time already? Here in the west, we start from >scratch > when entering a dojang.>> > > You start from scratch when you enter a dojang? Why. The student has been > studying Taekwondo for ? many years and you expect them to start as a white > belt just because they are no longer in a school but have decided to enter > you dojang (mind you the forms are still the same). That is BULL! > > Mike Rowe > >Mike, >Either you or I have misunderstood Anders' question. When I read it I >thought that Anders wondered if Korean kids traditionally have TKD in >"regular" school meaning Kindergarten through high school . > >Anders what did you mean exactly? Its really easy to think that Asian kids >get a lot of instruction in home and in school growing up. Even though I >have found most people I know do learn from their family or at the very least >have a lot of exposure growing up, some start from scratch too when they >enter the dojang. >Dawne That's what I was thinking as well. Doing TKD instead of baseball in the schoolyard (to take an american example), makes a lot of difference. Being able to work out with or ask your parents and relatives also makes a lot fo difference. The setting is much different also outside of the dojang, and that will affect the time needed in the dojang in order to reach 1st dan. Sincerely, Anders Torvill Bjorvand ------------------------------ From: Karel van der Walt Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:23:55 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: ROK Training Interesting that experiences with the military is similar. Maybe the the material is just a vehicle for the actual goal : to go through a drill without questioning and arguing the point - just do it while everybody including yourself is pretty much freaked out on fear. You see intersesting carry overs: some guys will not walk anywhere, esp with a backpack. My cousin will not approach a kitchen sink or anything resembling it - washed his dixie once to many in cold water with a layer of fat floating on top. Me I would like to rise with the sun but simply can not. Armies are all alike. Karel ------------------------------ From: Libby Wiebel Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 06:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: current survey Inspired by what Piotr Bernat wrote: >I started in a WTF school and it took me 3 years >to get to 6th Kup (and I took all the exams - that >time, it was a norm). Then my school was closed and I >joined an ITF school. I had to start as a white belt >again. It took me another two years to get to 4th Kup >(again, all the exams taken and passed). Then, the >club stopped organising gradings, so I was a 4th Kup >for three more years. Then, I rejoined the WTF and >they accepted my grade, so I was able to test for red >belt and later for black belt. Was it too long? Well, >it can be annoying to wear blue belt for three >years... But I don`t really regret it. When I finally >got my black belt I felt I really deserved it. I'm a college student and consequently quite mobile. In the last year, I've lived in 4 different places -- 2 internships taking me to different parts of the US, a semester in England, and a semester at my own college. In August I will move again to where I will begin graduate school. I'm glad to be able to be so mobile, but needless to say, it's been a bit frustrating for my training -- by the end of the year, I will have trained at 4 different TKD schools. Moving around so much has taught me a lot about being patient and open-minded. Since I started with TKD only a year ago, I've ended up starting out as a white belt in each of the schools I've been at. It's reinforced a lot of my basic techniques and learning the different forms that each school teaches has forced me to work hard on memorization! And so to answer the survey questions... > 1) How old were you when you started your MA? I was 21 when I started with TKD. Started primarily to learn some self defense and ended up getting a whole lot more out of it. > 2) How long did it take you to reach BB? ( or how >long will it take on your current schedule ? ) That's a tricky question since I've moved around so much. I test at every opportunity that I have. I'm currently wearing orange at a WTF school, but I anticipate that when I switch schools again in the fall (hopefully for the last time for a while!) that I will be a white belt again. I'm really in no hurry. I'll get there when I get there. I try to train at least 3 times each week. > 3) Do you feel that you took too long? Or maybe not long enough? I'm working hard. It will happen when it happens. I've just got to continue being patient with myself! > 4) How much did the rest of life impact your >progress? As I said above, my lifestyle has affected my training quite a bit. I choose to be as mobile as I am, though, and I don't see it as a hindrance. I see it as gaining insight into the philosophies of different schools and instructors and really honing in on my basic skills. That doesn't mean, however, that I won't be glad to settle into my next school (wherever it is) for a good dose of consistency! Libby Wiebel === - --------------------------------- Libby Wiebel LibbyWiebel@yahoo.com http://members.tripod.com/~LibbyW - --------------------------------- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:37:54 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Respect "......I saw 10 year old junior black belts who thought they deserved the respect of 30 year old green belts."........ My son is a 9 year old Junior Black Belt, and I am a 38 year old White Belt. Ostensibly there are the obvious conflicts within the Korean/Confucian Ethic (Sam-Gang-Oh-Ryun) related to the direction of respect related to 1) Age; 2) filial Piety, and 3) Belt Rank. In practice however there has not been any real conflict - my son respects me, and I respect him. We always have tried to treat each other with respect even before the Martial Arts came into our lives...... My son is a Black Belt. His technical skill, muscle memory, and knowledge about forms etc. are (obviously) orders of magnitude greater than mine. I believe I do have a greater fund of information than most White belts - purely as a result of my vicarious association with Taekwondo over the past several years. However my kicks, and forms etc. look like a white belts because that is what I am - and I have the 'muscle memory' (or lack thereof) to prove it. When we are on the mat and my son (or any other 'young' BB) helps me with my form, a kick, a technique etc. I thank them and treat them with the respect and deference that there rank/knowledge warrants - Age (or sex) is irrelevant. My son is also a 9 year old.... One of Jason's happiest days was when I ("finally") signed up for TKD lessons - - and I quote: "Now you will have to call ME 'Sir' and do EVERYTHING I say". My reply was that I would - as long as it was within the relevant to my learning TKD. OTOH There have been times when I have been on the mat and seen my son goofing off - Well, "Dad Mode" kicks in (usually only entails "THE LOOK") and Jason Gets back to doing what he should be doing. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is nothing wrong with a 10 year old BB asking (and expecting) a 30 year old green belt to follow his instructions, as long as those instructions have legitimate instructional value. For what it's worth Eric Mueller ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 08:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #334 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.