From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #337 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 2 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 337 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Starting Over Re: the_dojang: Re: Starting Over [none] the_dojang: Re: V6 #333: how old were you, etc. the_dojang: RE: So how old ARE you? the_dojang: RE: Life impact the_dojang: club hopping/visiting the_dojang: Re: Are We There Yet?/Joan Bostic the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #335 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #336 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MRowe@ids.sitel.net Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 16:02:55 GMT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Starting Over Mike Rowe:<< If you earned a rank at another school you should keep that rank no matter where you go. More so if you are ataying within the same governing body (ITF, WTF). Otherwise, what's the point of having those governing bodies? >> Illona: <> That is fine and works great! But that was not what I was commenting on. The comment I started with I felt was that a person on this list felt that if you came from a satilite program (high school, ymca, whatever) then if you came into a dojang you start over. I disagree with this. Illona: <> If I feel well balance about my abilities and a person puts me at a lower belt and expects me to pay fees for those belts they had better darn well teach me something new and/or improve my skill tremendously. Mike Rowe ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Starting Over > That is fine and works great! But that was not what I was commenting on. > The comment I started with I felt was that a person on this list felt that > if you came from a satilite program (high school, ymca, whatever) then if > you came into a dojang you start over. I disagree with this. You may disagree with it, but it is typical. The only time it is much less typical is once one hits Dan level and stays within the same organization. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 10:26:30 -0600 Subject: [none] Darlene wrote: \ Which brings me to another question to toss out: \ I am curious as to the demographics of your dojang in its new and \ returning students. \ \ Do more women or men come with MA "Buddies"? Most of the students at my dojang with buddies are girlfriend/boyfriend or wife/husband buddies. There's one brother/sister pair, a brother/brother pair, and a girlfriend/girlfriend pair. So I'd have to say it's a 50/50 split here :) \ Do older students come with "Buddies" more often than younger students? Yes. Probably has something to do with the general attitude of younger students to carry the world on their shoulders, and the general philosophy of older students to seek out assistance where they can find it ;) \ What time of year do most of your new students join your MA and when do \ they most often return if they've been gone for any length of time? My instructor also teaches Hapkido and TKD at the Colorado School of Mines, so it's kinda weird. In June the attendance at the dojang picks up, mainly because students from CSM have decided to continue to attend over the summer. But we also get a small influx of new students. In September attendance drops off as those students from CSM re-enroll in the college Hapkido and TKD classes. As Christmas approaches attendance takes another dip as people get bogged down by the holidays, and some of those who joined in the beginning of summer burn out. If a former student comes back it's usually in February or March. Then summer comes again and we start the process all over :) - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "Footprints on the sands of time are not made by sitting down." ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 12:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #333: how old were you, etc. I had skipped this for lack of time, and also because it entails publishing rank. Since, when the question of attaching rank to posts on the digest was debated a while ago, I was against it, publishing it now feels a bit hypocritical (especially since it's higher now;>) OTOH, since every other regular poster seems to have responded to this questionnaire, and since I'm unwilling to appear to be the _only_ curmudgeon here (must be mellowing;>): >1) How old were you when you started your MA? I started and pursued about 1 year of Kodokan judo when I was 16-17. I quit to go girl chasing when I got my driver's license. 29 years later, at 45, I took up Tang Soo Do because my son was training and because I had just ruptured my hamstring in-line skating and was only permitted passive stretching at first to exercise the leg (the dojang regimen included a _lot_ of stretching). >2) How long did it take you to reach BB? ( or how long will it take on your >current schedule ? ) I tested for my "full" BB (from cho dan bo) on March 24. Am still waiting (but I'm being taught 1st dan curriculum material, which is a good sign;>) > >3) Do you feel that you took too long? Or maybe not long enough? > Well, I don't really attach that much importance to my rank. I guess this is one of the many legacies from my early judo training - our instructor didn't award rank in the form of a belt, period. When I started TSD, I intended to train until I had either outgrown it or could no longer physically keep up, rank or no. That is still my intention, and hopefully neither of those things occurs anytime soon. That said, it does seem kind of cool to be (hopefully) getting my BB at just about the time I turn 50;>) > >4) How much did the rest of life impact your progress? Heh. Both my wife and I have careers that are time-consuming, our kids are 17 and 13, we own a house that we've been rehabbing for 12 years, I have quite a few other interests, and we just got a puppy (_nominally_ belonging to my youngest;>). I try to train (90 minute sessions) 3 times every week, and get additional practice at home. The 3x weekly training generally works out pretty well, the outside-dojang practice, not so good. It's a real challenge. === Tang Soo! Scott ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:53:00 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: So how old ARE you? > From: "Darlene" > Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:05:37 -0700 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Survey and MA Buddies > > Kerry asked: > > 1) How old were you when you started your MA? > (This is a trick question--you're asking us all how old we are!) > > Drat! You've uncovered my plan to start a database for my Dojang Dating Service! ;) Kerry ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:57:40 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Life impact > From: Ray Terry > Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 08:35:25 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: the_dojang: survey > > > > 4) How much did the rest of life impact your progress? > > Not very much, more likely my progress impacted the rest of my life, > especially wrt to SO relationships. > > I've gotta say, my sweetie sometimes asks (with a smile) "Are you sure you don't have a crush on some little cutie in your class?" All in all she's very understanding, a good thing now that I've been asked to assist other instructors. Kerry ------------------------------ From: No1IDIC@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:42:40 EDT Subject: the_dojang: club hopping/visiting well Ladies & Gents it appears that I will be in Europe for 2 weeks this summer. [graduation presents sure can be fun, can't they?] Its a self-directed trip. I'm pretty certain that we won't have any time to train anywhere which is a missed opportunity I'm sure, but I would like to visit various dojangs. So the question becomes: where can I find friendly dojangs to visit in Germany, France & Spain. The closer these gyms are to Frankfurt, Berlin, Paris, Barcelona or Madrid the better our chances of being able to stop by. I'd like to visit any style and don't give a hoot about federations, orgs and the like. We'd just like to see how its done in different parts of the world. Thanks everyone, Dawne No1IDIC@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:52:04 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Are We There Yet?/Joan Bostic Very nicely put discussion about missing the journey by focusing on the destination.... This reminds me of two recent occurrences at my Dojang....A 1st Dan had to sit out her 2nd degree testing due to an injury. While her friends were testing and advancing, she could only watch. It took her some time to come to terms with this as the desire to advance and stay "in sync" with the group she'd been training with was very strong. I explained to her that there were others who were wishing that they had already achieved their 1st Dan, and to be comfortable with her abilities and not focus on the specific rank. The other: a green belt approached me after a recent tournament and said that he never felt so good about losing! He had always been very competitive, but now realizes the personal journey and growth far out-weighed how he stacked up against a particular competitor on a given day. Although he did not win, he was happy with his effort and technique - - and that was good enough! I find it interesting that Dan level students can still have the intense drive for advanced ranks (for personal growth, or status?), while a Gup level student can feel comfortable with where they are at and not try to rush to their black belt! Perhaps age is a factor (the 1st Dan her was a teen, while the green belt was mid-30s), or perhaps there is something else! I have even had some adult students recently ask if I thought they should test, or wait. They could hurry and get the necessary number of classes, and pass their pre-test, but they wanted to get some input on whether or not it appeared as though they were rushing the testings - in this particular case, the advice to wait was well received, and they did wait until the next testing. It is refreshing to see those individuals who are making their art more meaningful by waiting and refining technique and not getting all wrapped up in quick advancing. In the spirit of TKD......... Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:11:38 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #335 In a message dated 7/1/99 6:18:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I'd just be interested in knowing the minimum requirements or standards that Koreans usually have before opening their own dojang. Are they forced to by their parents or by their instructors to pursue this course of action? Do they have to have some sort of instructor's certification, and when do they usually sit for it? Please, anything else you can think of as well. >> In Korea, one can not open a dojang without proper credentials or a license. Basically a 4th dan, and a master instructor's course certificate are the prerequisites. Those under 4th dan are required to teach under their master's license. SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:59:16 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #336 In a message dated 7/2/99 8:41:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << This 8th Dan tried to demand that this 1st Dan Start at white belt again. That is BULL! It is not Marketing, it is plain GREED! >> Indeed, Mike, i agree that is an unethical practice, but that sure sounds like an exceptional case rather than the typical scenario I see, where someone struts into my dojang and, without even being asked says something like: "I got up to grey-belt-with-vermillion-wingdings 5 or 6 years ago under sifu Tommy - but I still spar around a bit with friends - and before I waste my time watching your class I want you to know I will only consider joining if I can start at my old belt. And, by the way do I have to bow in every class?" In contrast, I find often someone crosses my threshold with a Kukkiwon dan paper in their hand, they often ask to start "all over again as it has been 3 years since they last trained regularly." In these cases I, of course tell them they may tie the belt they rightfully earned. Is that such a "Bull" manner of running a dojang? SESilz ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #337 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.