From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 6 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 340 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #339 the_dojang: starting out the_dojang: Re: Starting Over the_dojang: Re: Patience is a Virtue the_dojang: Re: Grades, starting over and all that stuff the_dojang: RE: Starting over the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. 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Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck Sears Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 14:35:59 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #339 > From: Mo Smith > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:20:31 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Starting over > > I want to clarify some things I last said on this subject. > > While I feel that one should be able to keep their belt rankings when > changing schools, I don't think that it applies when somebody is > starting an entirely new style. > > If somebody came to my school with a black belt ( or that styles' > equivilent ) they would have to start at the beginning. Usually, I've > seen that those students rise very quickly because of their previous > training, not always, but usually. > > If you go to a school that makes you start over then it would signal to > me that it may not be the best school to join. Either pride or money > might be the driving force of that school rather than teaching the art. When I have people transfer to my school from other styles of Taekwondo, or from a different discipline, such as karate, I do an evaluation with them and figure out where they fit into our belting system in terms of technique. I explain to them that their initial training will consist of learning the lower ranking forms, one-steps, etc. up to that equivalent rank. They will pick these up very quickly, because I do not have to teach them how to do the techniques, just how to put them together into our forms. Once they hit that equivalent rank, they fall right into our testing and promotional system. As an example: I have a young man who was ready to test for 1st Degree Black Belt in another style. His school closed their doors in the middle of the night and he was left hanging. He joined my school and last Thursday night presented all the forms, one-steps, etc. for 9th, 8th and 7th grade and was promoted straight to 6th grade. Next test, he'll present 6th and 5th. On the testing after that, 4th and 3rd; then 2nd and 1st. At that point, he will be ready to test for 1st Degree in our style. We went over this plan and he was quite enthusiastic about it. He is the equivalent of a red belt in our style and I offered to let him wear a red belt, but he chose to start over as white and work up. If a student is forced to start over in a school in the same style, that is not right. His/her rank should be recognized. IMHO, a transfer student's previous efforts should be recognized as much as possible and I think the way I outlined is a good way to do it. > > > ------------------------------ > > From: Stan Lim > Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 16:02:58 -0700 > Subject: the_dojang: RE: So how old ARE you? > > >> Kerry asked: > >> > 1) How old were you when you started your MA? > >> (This is a trick question--you're asking us all how old we are!) > >> > >> > >Drat! You've uncovered my plan to start a database for my Dojang Dating > >Service! ;) > > > >Kerry > > If I told you I started MA when I was 15, how old does that make me today? > I must have been kicked in the head once too many times coz I can't figure > it out :-) > You' ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: starting out >I have never takin any martial arts lessons but i am about to start. I live >in a small town and there is 1 guy that teaches Kara Ho Kempo, I was hoping >that someone could tell me how i know that he knows his stuff. And if Kara >Ho Kempo is even a good martial arts to take. The specific art/style typically matters little. The instructor and the school are what to look at. For info on selecting a good art & school see the July '99 issue of Black Belt magazine and the article written by my friend Marc "Animal" MacYoung. Also check out the KMA FAQ at http://www.martialartsresource.com/korean/koreanma.htm. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: MRowe@ids.sitel.net Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:38:39 GMT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Starting Over SESilz: <> And this is not the conversation starter. My inital post started with the statement that someone would make a person start over at white belt if they came in from a YMCA or School Program like they do in Korea. Taekwondo is part of the Phys. Ed. Program over there and every male is required to have a 1st Dan Kukkiwon. In most cases I agree if a student comes to you without a Black Belt as in the above situation I would want them to start over. However, the one thing I have found that has helped me keep strong students and an good organization is to never make anybody startover. If that person is full of bull they will drop within a few weeks. If they are honest then they don't advance until qualifications are up to par. <> Of course not. If that student wants to put on a belt of a lower rank, and you are not making them, that is good. As fot that exception of a 8th Dan that made a person start over again (which he didn't he drove 2 hours to my school 3 times a week to continue to train.) It has happened more often that I care to mention. (and not in cases where the 1st Dan has taken 3 years off, They just graduated High School and are moving to a college town. I have had calls come back where these College Club Instructors (with Kukkiwons) within the USTU or NCTA Structure try to insist that these students start as White Belt again. This is BULL Behavior. ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 07:34:39 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Patience is a Virtue Illona wrote: \ << It is refreshing to see those individuals who are making their art \ more meaningful by waiting and refining technique and not getting all \ wrapped up in quick advancing. >> \ \ Yes, I love those types of students. I have one right now that is \ driving me up the wall !! He has some training here and there in \ various arts when he was in the Army stationed here and there. So of \ course he really believes he is great. Then I found out that he has \ only been tested once in his whole life in one style (Kenpo) ... and \ made it to Yellow Belt. But that is not what is bugging me. He \ follows me around all the time asking to test!! \ \ He was in my school not 2 days when he announced he wanted to test \ with the other White Belts that were testing in a couple of weeks !! \ And for 2 months he pestered me !! \ \ Well, he finally got to test in June ... and now it is barely \ July... and here he is following me around pestering me to test \ again. Had to have a chat with him tonite. I told him that the \ more someone pestered me about testing ... the further off I put \ their tests. I told him to do what you said ... "enjoy the journey" \ .... and become the best Yellow Belt in the school and quit trying \ to learn all the Orange and Green and Blue and Red things .... when \ he should be perfecting all the Yellow techniques he has. \ (he thinks he is perfect and it is time to move on). If I may add, by letting him know that taking x number of classes is part of testing, he may focus more on the classes between tests. At the dojang I go to it's clearly stated in writing that at least 16 classes must be taken and at least 10 weeks must pass before someone will be considered for testing (for the lower belts). Our instructor verbally adds that those classes and the student's progress and focus in those classes are part of the test. It gives everyone incentive to show up to class and spend their time in class well. \ This man is teaching me patience .... that is why \ he was put in my path ..... I know it. He is a character .... but he \ is my character .... LOL ! So you might say that Life is testing You. \ Time will tell if he sticks it out here or tries somewhere else \ because he does not believe he moving fast enough. Ho hum. If he didn't need to learn patience it doesn't sound like he would've ended up at your doorstep :) - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "Footprints on the sands of time are not made by sitting down." ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:05:33 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Grades, starting over and all that stuff > While I feel that one should be able to keep their belt rankings when > changing schools, I don't think that it applies when somebody is > starting an entirely new style. > > If somebody came to my school with a black belt ( or that styles' > equivilent ) they would have to start at the beginning. Usually, I've > seen that those students rise very quickly because of their previous > training, not always, but usually. FYI only... We have it as a rule over here: - - if somebody comes with a grade achieved in the same organisation (WTF) s/he may always keep his grade, provided that s/he has the Polish TKD Federation certificate (we have only one WTF body in Poland); - - if somebody comes with a grade achieved in another Taekwondo organisation (ITF, GTF...), the grade will normally not be recognized. However, after you have learned all the prescribed curriculum, you may test to the equivalent of your present grade; for example, if you are a 1st Dan ITF and you join the WTF in Poland, you may test for 1st Dan WTF without passing all the coloured belt tests; - - other situations (Karate grades...) are viewed by individual basis. The general rule is that once you learned all the stuff required, you may test for any grade (skipping grades over). A Karate 4th kyu can be promoted to 4th Kup TKD (but also, say, 6th or 3rd depending on the individual standard). Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl ------------------------------ From: Ray Simmons Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:35:44 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Starting over Mo wrote: >While I feel that one should be able to keep their belt rankings when >changing schools, I don't think that it applies when somebody is >starting an entirely new style. I started over after a 20+ year layoff and I changed styles too. Maybe I just found the right school but I am requested to wear my Hapkido Black Belt to class even though I was only a TKD white belt. This was to demonstrate respect for the Black Belt that I earned without lessening the need to learn the TKD techniques. This seems to me to be a most proper attitude. I do wear my normal TDK rank for testing and for seminars. My $0.02 - -Ray 1st Dan Hapkido 6th gup TKD - -- Ray Simmons EMC Corporation res@mil.emc.com 5 technology Dr. (508)435-1000 x55669 Milford, Ma. 01757 - -------- Opinions are mine alone --------- ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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