From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #341 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 7 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 341 In this issue: the_dojang: minor corrections the_dojang: Several things Re: the_dojang: Several things the_dojang: Survey the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 14:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: minor corrections > And this is not the conversation starter. My inital post started with the > statement that someone would make a person start over at white belt if they > came in from a YMCA or School Program like they do in Korea. Taekwondo is > part of the Phys. Ed. Program over there and every male is required to have > a 1st Dan Kukkiwon. Every male is not required to have a 1st Dan Kukkiwon in S.Korea. Most do, but every male is not 'required' to have their 1st Dan 'from the Kukkiwon'. Taekwondo is taught in phys ed, but not as it is taught in a dojang. i.e. the kids do not usually go through the gup belts. They just study it for a few weeks and then move onto a different sport and then they study that sport for a few weeks and so on. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Diane Goodman" Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 18:42:25 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Several things I am new to the list and have been enjoying all the discussions, such as: 1. How many boards we break and how many trees this accounts for: Was this = a Zen question? And I had never even heard of rebreakable plastic boards! = Wow, technology invades the dojang. =20 2. How old were we when we first started MA and TKD, and how long did it = take to progress: I was 21, I believe, when I first started to study TKD. = It took me four years to get 1st dan and four more years to get 2nd dan. = That was about right for me personally, although some people got 1st in = two years. I don't think it should be less than two years for anyone. We = also didn't have so many belt levels as they seem to nowadays: we had only = white, yellow, green, purple, brown, and black. So you stayed longer at = each level. Then I had to take a 12-year "vacation," as I moved out of New York City = to western New York state, and there were no martial arts schools for = miles. When I moved to Florida and decided to get back into martial arts, = I did have to start all over again, at age 42. This time, it took 3 1/2 = years to get to black belt. One interesting difference: In New York, we = had one 15-year-old in the class; everyone else was an adult. In Florida, = it was a least half children, as young as 7 years old; and their parents = seemed to have the attitude that martial arts was just a kid thing! (I = guess because in my early days, the TV show KUNG FU was the inspiration; = now it's THE KARATE KID.) 3. Renegades: It seems that there are now martial arts schools all over the place and = that, rather reprehensibly, anyone can claim to be a "10th degree black = belt" in something or other. They are teaching styles you never heard of, = which they may very well have made up. You might look for a school with an = "affiliation," but unless you really know your organizations, that could = be made up as well.So it's sometimes hard to sort out the fakes from the = genuine article. But who is a renegade and who is just, well, unconventiona= l? My first teacher in New York City was Master Duk Sung Son. (If there are = any Master Son graduates out there, please get in touch!) He was a = wonderful teacher, a 9th degree black belt in TKD, wrote a couple of = books. We were part of the "World Tae Kwon Do Association (don't know if = this has anything to do with the WTF), we did compete in outside tournament= s, so I had no reason to doubt if we were legit.=20 My second teacher might be called a renegade; although we were ostensibly = a tae kwon do school, we also had some hapkido and ninjitsu thrown in, and = he made up his own forms. But he was also a great teacher, and his = personal style - disciplined but gentle - was exactly right for me. = Unfortunately, he was not able financially to keep the school going, then = a crisis in his personal life led him to abandon martial arts.=20 These days, 2-6 of us are working out 3 days a week in my garage and = trying to carry on. We have affiliated with the International Combat = Hapkido Federation and are studying combat hapkido while also continuing = to refine our TKD. What a long strange journey it's been! Diane ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 16:24:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Several things > My first teacher in New York City was Master Duk Sung Son. (If there are = > any Master Son graduates out there, please get in touch!) He was a = > wonderful teacher, a 9th degree black belt in TKD, wrote a couple of = > books. We were part of the "World Tae Kwon Do Association (don't know if = > this has anything to do with the WTF), we did compete in outside tournament= > s, so I had no reason to doubt if we were legit.=20 Yes, he is VERY well known. In one of his books he shows a self-defense 'move'. Which, when we discussed this previously on the list, someone mentioned was a true story. He is surrounded by several thugs in the park, his back is to a very large tree. He turns around and kicks the tree and then turns back to face his opponents. Seeing his kick his opponents run the other direction. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:23:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Survey Sorry if I'm late on this one... been busy and I had a lot of e-mails stacking up... >1) How old were you when you started your MA? 18 >2) How long did it take you to reach BB? ( or how long will it take on your >current schedule ? ) 4 years >3) Do you feel that you took too long? Or maybe not long enough? About right. I had also had 3 or 4 different instructors/schools during that time. >4) How much did the rest of life impact your progress? College, dating, etc. kept getting in the way. Later, work, marriage, babies, etc. At least this is a life long pursuit. Along the way I started over a couple of times, and a few dojangs also accepted me at current rank (even though a different style). I wish I had received my BB prior to graduating High School. This is where my daughters will have an advantage. One has already received her BB when she was 9, and the other should have hers while 9 also. They both started formal training at 4, and just playing around with Daddy prior to that. On another note.... The new book "Tang Soo Do; The Ultimate guide to the Korean martial art" was so cheep (< $15) I bought them their first TSD reference book. They were happy campers! I signed both of them, from their Instructor, Friend, and Father. Hope everyone (in the US) had a great 4th of July! Mac and still just a Blue Belt/red stripe after all these years. ;-) TANG SOO! ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 01:59:22 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 In a message dated 7/6/99 10:12:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << If a student is forced to start over in a school in the same style, that is not right. His/her rank should be recognized. IMHO, a transfer student's previous efforts should be recognized as much as possible and I think the way I outlined is a good way to do it. >> I do like the way you have done it .... and will consider it if anyone from a similar but not same kind of school student come to my school. I had one young lady who was a "jr. black belt" from a Kung-Fu school that closed .... and she wanted to come to my school ..... but we do absolutely no Kung-Fu here .... not anywhere near like it at all ... but I told her she would probably raise in the ranks pretty quickly as her basics were really really good. She didn't even make it thru the 8 week evaluation period here. And then I found out that Kung-Fu schools don't have Jr. Black Belts .... so who knows what she was. And what she was looking for here. But I couldn't see letting her in here with a black belt. Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:03:52 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 In a message dated 7/6/99 10:12:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << (and not in cases where the 1st Dan has taken 3 years off, They just graduated High School and are moving to a college town. I have had calls come back where these College Club Instructors (with Kukkiwons) within the USTU or NCTA Structure try to insist that these students start as White Belt again. This is BULL Behavior. >> A First Dan in TKD is a First Dan in TKD ........... no matter the style of TKD or instuctor. I would accept them in my school as such. Of course, they would want to learn all our beginning stuff ... like forms and such ..... but no reason to remove the Black Belt that they have earned. JMHO Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:14:14 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 In a message dated 7/6/99 10:12:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << If I may add, by letting him know that taking x number of classes is part of testing, he may focus more on the classes between tests. At the dojang I go to it's clearly stated in writing that at least 16 classes must be taken and at least 10 weeks must pass before someone will be considered for testing (for the lower belts). Our instructor verbally adds that those classes and the student's progress and focus in those classes are part of the test. It gives everyone incentive to show up to class and spend their time in class well.>> Good idea ..... well insert that bug in his ear tomorrow. Yes, we do have a mandatory amount of classes .... but I fear if I tell him ... he will be sitting on my doorstep the very day of his last required classtime and say " Now " ????? \ This man is teaching me patience .... that is why \ he was put in my path ..... I know it. He is a character .... but he \ is my character .... LOL ! << So you might say that Life is testing You.>> Ain't life one big test ?? LOL ! And I am bad at word problems !! LOL \ Time will tell if he sticks it out here or tries somewhere else \ because he does not believe he moving fast enough. Ho hum. <> Yes, he and his wife both love the place .... and I do like them alot ... and their kids. He looked high and low for months for the perfect school and he said when he walked in and watched a few classes ... he knew our school was for them. He wants to be a teacher here one day (talk about way-ahead goals !! LOL ) ... so much so that he wanted to buy the pants and top right now for the day that would come about !! I had to refuse ... and told him to be patient. Oh well. Better to be overstocked with anxious students then understocked ! :-) Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:14:47 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 In a message dated 7/6/99 10:12:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << - -- "Footprints on the sands of time are not made by sitting down." >> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo ! I like this one! Who is this by? Illona ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:18:31 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #340 In a message dated 7/6/99 10:12:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << - - if somebody comes with a grade achieved in another Taekwondo organisation (ITF, GTF...), the grade will normally not be recognized. However, after you have learned all the prescribed curriculum, you may test to the equivalent of your present grade; for example, if you are a 1st Dan ITF and you join the WTF in Poland, you may test for 1st Dan WTF without passing all the coloured belt tests; >> If they come to our school with a 1st Dan in TKD (no matter what organization) ... then they may keep the rank and wear the belt .... but they will have to pass all the belts here ... no charge ... and then test for 1st Dan in our organization. But 1st Dan in a different kind of style .... like Kung-Fu or Kenpo or something like that ..... nope. We are too different. Illona ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 05:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #341 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.