From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #354 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 16 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 354 In this issue: the_dojang: a meanie the_dojang: Dawne the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #353 the_dojang: Re: KTA Code the_dojang: Question of how to address a teacher in Korean the_dojang: Re: Who will attack you? Re: the_dojang: KTA code the_dojang: Kong Sang Koon the_dojang: Kong Sang Koon the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #353 the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: No1IDIC@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:34:19 EDT Subject: the_dojang: a meanie << One "mean technique" is what he terms "no more babies". You wouldn't want to do a no more babies to your drunk brother-in-law. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >> I don't know Ray. If you really didn't like that your sister married this guy... ;-) Your distinction is well taken. Dawne ------------------------------ From: 4karate@bellsouth.net Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:50:41 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Dawne Dawne....don't let anyone tell you ever that you are stupid. Your comments break not just a light but a beacon of light to the reality of domestic and teen violence. Unfortunately, these are the real issues here.....and you have set a spark in me now to create a program I can take into the schools concerning this. The 14 year old brother point is an excellant one. The thing to remember her folks is...under the laws of most states...any domestic violence leads to an arrest...mandatory!!! So if your 14 yr old...or even your 20 yr old son becomes violent and you smack him down....when the cops arrive...take a guess who most likely will end up in the pokey. I used to be a cop...I love police work and have a great deal of respect for the men and women who do it...but honestly....most of the cops out there just won't take the time to sort out the pieces. They get the basic facts and lock someone up...then let the judge figure out who was right and who was wrong. I think this is a bad thing. It makes for anomosity against cops....but....sometimes the way the law is written ties their hands (like it does here in the Commonwealth)...and they HAVE TO MAKE AN ARREST. Keep in mind...under new federal law...a conviction of any kind of domestic violence can be a career ender in some fields (I.E. any law enforcement or correction job is over...and some federal security jobs as well), and you can forget ever getting a permit to own a firearm again (not that I'm any fan of guns...cause in my opinion...only someone who has been through a week long course should be allowed to even purchase a gun...including hunting weapons...but that's just because as a cop...I wanted to be the only one in the room with a gun. Ha!) Dawne, your point is excellant...and bears considerable consideration. I often think we tend to forget that we are now almost living in the 21st Century...and much of the Martial Arts we practice and teach is not only impractical...but actually illegal to actually use. Sad...but true. Think about it....just how many of your techniques could you use without any worry of having to face legal problems? Sort of nips ya down to the bud doesn't it?! This seems like a good topic we should explore more on the Digest. Wouldn't you agree Ray? John Hancock P.S. What happenned to the indomitable Jamaica Powers? I've been off line for awhile getting my school up and running and now that I'm back...I don't see her postings anymore???? Jamaica! Calling Jamaica! Come right away! Bring Dr. Bombay! OK...being silly again. :-P ------------------------------ From: "Aaron Harmon" Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 07:57:01 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #353 >Do you think (any cites?) this is the case for men and woman, or only for >women? > >My gut feel says that most men that are -violently- attacked are not attacked >by relatives. Perhaps people they know, but not relatives. ??? Yes, there was a difference based on location and gender and race of the victim as to the proportions, but the pattern was still pretty much the same. Maybe I will look up that book, and find more specific info. As to the other comment by our host. Hi Ray. Yeah, I figured that HKD and HRD and KSW would have techniques with less than crippling effect for such situations, but I was thinking about some styles that are more ballistic. ------------------------------ From: Kim Jones Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: KTA Code Ray-- Sounds like a really really big excerpt from: _Taekwondo Textbook Volume I: Basic Techniques and Taegeuk Poomse._ Kim Jeong-Rok. Seoul, Korea: Seolim Publishing Company, 1986. I think my instructor picked that book (which is bilingual-Hangul/English) from Kyobo Book Center in downtown Seoul. The price? ehhhhhhh... I saw 8,000 won on it last time I was bored enough to check. My eyes could be deceiving me, however. There's also Volume II, which is the Palgue poomse, and Volume III: Black belt schtuff, includes rules and regulations if I remember the TofC (table of contents). For any of you who are interested in picking up a copy of those books and aren't able to take the subway or taxi down to Kyobo, try looking the author up at any of the online book stores. You'll ahve better luck finding it there than at your local Books-a-Million. (I say this because a moronic friend of mine accused me of giving him b.s. info--LOCAL U.S. BOOKSTORES WILL NOT CARRY THIS BOOK UNLESS IT HAS BEEN ORDERED!!!! *sighs with frustration*) Back to what I was saying before I got side-tracked, the top of the KTA Code is almost word-for-word printed in the book that I gave bibliography information for. It's neat to see. Also, the author ran (don't know if the verb "runs" still applies) the Foreigner's Gymnasium in Seoul. Haven't been there... yet. Kim P.S. - Considering I don't break my foot or rip my toes apart in stupidity, I should be able to test for 1st red (3rd keub) this coming Wednesday. I need all the prayers I can get!!!! (For those wondering, kicking a crooked kicking pad crooked is NOT the smartest thing to do. If you ahve to, correct the person holding the pad because a swollen 2nd toe--next to big toe on right foot--that goes from black n' blue to red to purple then to some shade of brown is NOT good. And it hurts like gochu elements in the eye when you try and make a 180 degree split between your big and 2nd toe--unintentionally. Yet another memorial to remind me of what a pabo I can be.) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "White Lotus" Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:06:48 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Question of how to address a teacher in Korean What is the proper Korean title for teacher? How should they be addressed? I heard that Sabumnim is for master level BBs, 5 - 7 Dan. What about those BBs below 5 Dan? I read somewhere that teacher was literally Sunsangnim. Mark ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:18:33 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Who will attack you? < I was wondering how many people train in the knowledge that most likely their attackers will be their relatives. Does anyone ever have a "non-injury" class, where you practice techniques with a minimum of intended injury? Kicks to the thigh instead of the knee, joint locks instead of joint breaks, no blows to the head or chest, etc...>> In the Hapkido Dojang where train we are commonly taught control and minimum force maneuvers. As a white belt a year ago the some of the first things I learned (after learning how to break a grab) where: reacting to someone grabing my shirt by raising my hands between their arms and putting my thumbs together and pressing the lowest point on their larynx which forces them to gag which gives me time to do whatever I want (alternatively you can push your thumbs into their eyes which distracts the hell out of them and accomplishes the same thing), reversing a grab and using my free hand to just push them away, reacting to a choke or a bear hug with a nerve pinch. Our instructor impresses on us that more than likely we will be attacked by a drunk in a bar or a friend who's just having a bad day and we won't want to put them in the hospital. He teaches us moves to defend ourselves without causing damage (the moves may cause a lot of pain, but they don't inflict permanent damage). These days as a green belt I'm being taught wrist locks, arm locks, and such to control my opponent, in addition to take downs and throws in case the less violent methods aren't working, or just aren't an option. Anyway, regardless of which martial art you are taking it would probably be wise to plan to use less violent methods for dealing with an attacker on the off chance it's a friend or relative, or a drunk for whom a kick to the knee or head would be overkill. And of course there's the least violent reaction to aggresion: apologize and walk away :) - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "One little smile can fill the room with sunshine." ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:55:19 -0700 Subject: Re: the_dojang: KTA code < Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: KTA code Since things are slow, a repost from 1995. I was reminded of it when I saw it again at http://www.ustu.org. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Code of Etiquette: The Korea Taekwondo Association>> FWIW, what follows is what is taught at the Dojang I train at. Do other Hapkido Dojangs have something similar? (Or the same?). - ---- Hapkido Martial Arts Personal Interrelationships 1. Honor and support your family, with sacrifice and without expectation of return. Next to your family, honor and support your teacher as a parent. Give your fellow students your help as you should your brothers and sisters. In giving, you will become stronger. 2. Senior students should treat junior students as peers and equals. Junior students should treat senor students with respect and understand that the humility of the senior student is a sign of a deeper understanding of the martial art. 3. No matter how long you have trained, if you begin to think of yourself as knowledgeable, you commit an error. Display humility which comes from an understanding of the long and aparently endless path to true accomplishment. 4. Respect the strengths of others and help them with their weaknesses. this will strengthen you as well. 5. Senior students are responsible for setting an example by their behavior, even outside of class. This shows an understanding that the martial art is a part of life and will strengthen both your practice and your ability to teach the martial art. 6. Regardless of your current agreement with your teacher's policies, do your best to understand and support them. Never criticize your teacher to others. This is the same attitude juniors should have toward seniors. Progress in the martial art may bring a new understanding of others. 7. Allow your teacher to be human, rather than the ideal of perfection. Your teacher's errors and problems will provide you with another opportunity to grow internally, if you can treat them with understanding and kindness, and if you can respect your teacher as a person growing toward an ideal of the martial art. 8. Regardless of the length of time you have trained in the marial art, do your best to show proper courtesy whether in or out of class. You will thereby gain respect and strength. 9. Gratefully accept and seriously consider criticism, even by juniors. Often it is the case that a helpful truth can only be seen from the outside. Long experience may not be necessary for such observations. Disregarding criticism because of pride in knowledge is a sign of ignorance. 10. At all times, in class or out, on the telephone, etc., show respect to black belts and instructors by adressing them as "Sir" or "Ma'am". - ---- - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "The light is reached not by turning back from the darkness, but by going through it." ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:25:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Kong Sang Koon Thanks for your responses Bradley, Master V. and John (the Brain) regarding Kong Sang Koon. First, perfect comment from Bradley about checking with my instructor. I'd give the same advice. I don't have a specific instructor. At seminars with the Grandmaster, I've asked him. His sons who also works with us may do it slightly differently. At my level, sometimes the way I think or want to do it will be OK with them too (as long as it's not really changing it). Generally, only 5th Dans and higher even practice this form in our association, so it's not like you see everyone doing it. The grandmaster does allow us some individual room. And I know it does sound strange John, and maybe it was because I'm on a padded floor (last week I tried it on a springy gymnastics floor), but actually dropping into a deep front stance after the kick is where I found myself feeling a bit off (I could have just been bouncing from the weight drop), not on the pull back to the back stance. I've also examined the interpretation before you mention about the take down, I even explain it that way myself. So the way you do it, is on both sets to drop into front stances, pulling back to back stances? In both Hwang Kee's book and Kang Uk Lee's (if I remember right, don't have them here) they show the first set landing in a "back" stance, pulling back maintaining the same back stance (twice), then after the 2nd kick landing in a "front" stance pulling back into a back stance (twice). Maybe it is just after landing in back stances on the first set then landing in the front stance on the second set seemed to trip me up?? Dana, I liked your answer best, because you are agreeing with me! I think I've done it similar to John before, both sets in front stances pulling back to back stances. I guess I just wanted to make sure I was doing it the published "standard" way, which seems awkward to me. Actually at the last seminar, I walked over to Grandmaster Kim and asked him if the first 2 were back stances, the second 2 front stances, and he just agreed with me. The Master I was working out with walked over to Master Saul and asked the same question, but received the same answer you did???? I hate when that happens... Thanks for helping me to think about this. It may seem trivial, but the little details are important to me, especially because I want to use it in the upcoming tournament and need to make sure I'm not going to be off balance - or have the potential to be. Trying to reduce my risks and increase my odds.... I'm working with another master tonight to get him ready and I'll be trying to sharpen up too. I'll try it both ways and see what works best for me. Later, Mac TANG SOO! ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:39:06 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Kong Sang Koon OK, I just tried the moves in my computer room... behind secured doors, on a hard stable floor (wearing boots), and had no problems with balance at all. It must be the padded and springing gymnastics floor that throws me off... Plus, I was able to see myself a little in the reflection of the computer cabnet doors (dark smoky glass)... and I don't even break a sweat in there! It's kept cold. Just looks strange if someone walks in on me :-) I was having to wait anyway while installing a new server. Why not take the oppurtunity? I do like landing in a back stance for the low kwon soo, then on the second kwon soo reaching out deep in a deep front stance. I think that's how I'll do it. Later, Mac Houston, TX TANG SOO! ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:26:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #353 >but, the word 'soo' refers to an 'open hand'...and the word >'kwon' refers to a 'closed hand'....or a 'fist'. So, yes, >Virginia....there really is >a 'sohn 'o claws'. So, a "kwan soo" is an open (spear) hand only in class, but a "kwon soo" is an oxymoron anywhere;?) Actually, I never understood that word - wouldn't the morons be the ones who got _less_ oxygen;?) === Scott ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #354 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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