From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #357 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 18 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 357 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #356 the_dojang: Defending One's Self against Attack the_dojang: Re: Jump-around kicks the_dojang: Allison the_dojang: MAC the_dojang: Re: Records for Breaking! the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #356 the_dojang: cinder record the_dojang: and rotate my cuff while you're under the hood, doc... the_dojang: . ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: d g Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:59:44 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #356 the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > > From: Duffbeer@aol.com > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:28:24 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #355 > > Tang Soo! > I remember reading recently about the courts deciding that the defending of > one's self using just your body (no weapons) can not be held as a criminal > incident if you severly hurt or kill your opponant. (referring to MA'tists > versus regular people). Does anyone know of the exact case, or similar case > law? > > Also, what was the final verdict about people who 'register their hands as > deadly wapons' with their local police? Is this just one of those myths, or > is it true? I know we had some discussions on the digest, but what was the > final conclusion? > Hmm. I believe the first time I came on a mailing list we had this discussion. My husband, when I first started in martial arts was upset and wanted me to quit because he seen this ad in the back of a ma mag of a martial artist in shackles coming into court. Then he was arguing I will have to register my hands and feet. Conclusion in our discussion I think was it depended on the state you are in. I know Wisconsin is not one. Though a couple of friends of mine argued it was because when they were in it they had to at yellow stripe. I thought that was unusual because I was under the understanding you did that at first dan. To protect yourself in a fight. First come up with your hands open and say "look, I do not want to fight you" Do everything you can to not encourage a fight. Witnesses will say that you did not want to fight. Also, when in a fight and your attacker is down, back away. If you come after your attacker when he is down, you become the attacker and not the victim and that can be used against you in a court of law. Donna - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: Nyneerland@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:43:36 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Defending One's Self against Attack In response to Allison's question: <> In Philadelphia about 2 years ago a blind man was walking down the street and was attacked by a would-be mugger who thought the blind man would be easy money. Not so! The blind man was also a very accomplished martial artist and upon attack performed a quick self-defense move which immediately broke the mugger's neck, killing him. Unbelieveably, the attacker's family tried to sue the blind man for the incident, stating that he should have practiced more self-control since he was such an accomplished martial artist. The lawsuit was overturned in favor of the blind man. It's amazing that the attacker's family even thought to sue the blind pedestrian, but you never know sometimes how the courts will rule. Although these days it seems that the mood of the courts as well as the country is becoming more supportive of good old-fashioned self defense.... otherwise known as "common sense"!! Hopefully this is a lasting trend... :-) Tang Soo! A. Conlon ------------------------------ From: Taguek@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:51:54 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Jump-around kicks I was wondering if anybody could help me on how to get my jump spin kick, jump around spin kick, and jump around side kick down. Thanks ------------------------------ From: 4karate@bellsouth.net Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:16:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Allison Allison, I never heard of the case you are refering to...but I sure would like to find it if it does exist. Keep in mind...just because one court in one state decided this....doesn't mean it will fly under the law in another court in another state (judges are people too....and prejudices are realities ...no...I'm not talking race here...prejudices as regards points of law). About the registering the hands....you bring me someone who has their hands "registered" as deadly weapons with any OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT JUDICIAL or POLICING agency......and I'll show you a fraud. Doesn't exist...can't happen...and think about this...there are 10,000,000 martial artists at least in this country......do you really think the Government even wants to deal with the hassells of finding and monitoring these people?!! Hell....they can't even get the mail delivered! LOL! What makes this 'URBAN LEGEND' so proliferate even today is the fact that government is so bogged down in red tape and ludicrous superficial statutes that it is readily believeable that someone would have to go to the court house and register their hands as lethal weapons upon achieving a Black Belt. HAR! HAR! HAR! I have to tell you....while I would like to see some type of licensing for those that want to own and operate a martial art school (would cut down on the nut cases and frauds out there)....I don't want to have me individually singled out in the community as "DANGEROUS AND NEEDS WATCHING". It is hard enough to make people believe I'm not more than just a little nuts for doing this stuff for a living *Smirk*. Well...here's the news from the swamps of Kentucky. Grand Opening tomorrow. Have the place cleaned up enough to get started anyway. Still many many little things that need to be done...but I have to get some money coming in!!! Gonna have a ribbon cutting (Even though my buddy who shall remain nameless *MARTY SHAW* didn't send my swords in time so I could use them to cut the ribbon). I'm going to serve Bul Gogi and Fried Rice along with some side dishes (Kimchee, etc) for a snack (oh...and of course...the dreaded FORTUNE KOOKIE!!! OOOOOOO!!). Chopsticks are optional. What doesn't get eaten....well...lets just say it won't go to waste. heheheheh. The school is offering classes in Tang Soo Do, Tai Chi Chuan, and Sim Do Kum Do. Also planned is a Cardio Karate class (looking for an instructor now...prefer a woman...don't want to do that one myself....looking kinda like Sammo Hung now...I don't foster a lot of confidence in an aerobic program...eheheh) and a whole slew of weekend seminars on things like: Hapkido, Wing Chun Kung Fu...of course the Bill Wallace kicking seminar (that's provided Bill can schedule it...and from my few times meeting Bill...just talk to Kim and have the money and its a done deal), as well as others. OH...so much to do....so little time...and no damn help. WANTED: S/W/F BB to share joys and passions for running a fulltime MA School. Must have Black Belt and be willing to cross train in other disciplines. Send picture of form. What daya tink? Might work? HAHA. John Hancock ------------------------------ From: 4karate@bellsouth.net Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:20:01 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: MAC h, BTW, I believe the "Ahneso Pahkero Chagi" is an inside-to-outside crescent kick, not an inside crescent kick, but I knew what you meant..... Hehehehehehe couldn't resist John :-) AHHHHHHH.....Ya got me! Sorta flipped 'em around backwards didn't I? Well...it wouldn't be the first time I was arse backwards. JH ------------------------------ From: "Dennis S. Troy Jr." Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 09:56:41 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Records for Breaking! Recently, there were several discussions regarding breaking boards, = bricks and wood. Does anyone know who holds the records for most boards = broken, biggest broken, etc.? Any info regarding where I could find this = information out would also be great! - ------------------------------ You might want to check out "Guinness Book of World Records". They = "should" have this information in there. One of the guys that I work = with has made a couple of records that was televised on their TV Show. Dennis S. Troy Jr. ------------------------------ From: Kim Jones Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 15:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #356 > From: Duffbeer@aol.com > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:28:24 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #355 > > Tang Soo! > I remember reading recently about the courts deciding that the defending > of one's self using just your body (no weapons) can not be held as a > criminal incident if you severly hurt or kill your opponant. (referring > to MA'tists versus regular people). Does anyone know of the exact case, > or similar case law? > > Also, what was the final verdict about people who 'register their hands > as deadly wapons' with their local police? Is this just one of those > myths, or is it true? I know we had some discussions on the digest, but > what was the final conclusion? > > Thanks > Allison Allison-- Now, I don't have a degree in law seeing as how I'm still in high school... but if you use just your bare hands, you probably did NOT intend to inflict fatal/mortal damage to your opponent in the case of a physical altercation. Now, looking back on a criminal case made against an assistant instructor for an incident outside a club back in '96 (which they publicized the fact that he taught TKD to "young children" several times a week), they ruled against him but gave him a light sentence. Details (short n' sweet) goes like this: ...Assistant instructor, whom I'm calling Jim for y'all, is at a club with his girlfriend/baby's mother. Some guy starts harassing Jim's significant other and Jim himself. ...skeptic details in the development of the newspaper story following what happened (almost a year and a half later in 1998) says that the fight spilled outside... ...Jim, instead of going to his car and leaving, goes and gets machetes and comes back to face the harasser because the guy makes Jim think he has a gun. Jim slashes the guy up pretty decent (okay, the guy had some scratches, also blown out of proportion by the newspaper)... ...and got 2 years of jail time, 3 of probabtion for his actions. That's the rest of the story. Had he used his bare hands or maybe objects around him instead of going out to his car and back, jailed he would not be. But machetes he used, so jailed he is. That's DEFINITELY not what you're looking for, but I can tell you that example above, however, is definitely a case in which had the situation been minorly different, the verdict would've been something a whole lot lighter. He gets out this January, I do believe, my former assistant instructor Jim... Now, the first time I ever heard that line about having to register your hands with the FBI or local police or whatever, I got suspicious... and this was a year back during fundraisers for '98 Junior Olympics. Some GI thought he was smart enough to fool 10 year olds with that, but come on! It sounds fishy to someone who's several years older (and who has a parent with plenty of experience as far as law enforcement goes). I asked my dad, and he looked at me with the weirdest expression on my face as he asked me if I truly believed that. He then explained that the guy was pulling my leg and is probably lying about the fact that he learned from an 11th dan (which I already knew was false because 9th dan is the highest you can go in Taekwondo, or is it 10th? 9th dan I know for sure). You can fool lots of little kids who haven't done their research with that line ("Yeah, my instructor was an 11th dan!"), but adolescents and adults will have a lot harder time swallowing that jagged lil' pill, even without having learned that in your particular system, 9th dan is the highest you can go. Think about it... you're a martial artist, and when provoked your hands (and feet and body, for that matter) can be the deadliest weapons in your arsenal (if all else fails, run or pick up the biggest and ugliest object to throw or wield at your opponent WITHIN hand's reach), but if every martial artist had to register their body parts... do you think there'd be a large population of active participants in martial arts in the U.S.? Common sense (and having someone in law enforcement explain it very very slowly to you) prevails here. And back to Jim... he pretty much kept it under wraps about that altercation until it was published in the paper and received his sentence. A good number of people suddenly disappeared from the class after that... wonder why... but he always taught us that if anything, be responsible and confess to your actions because nobody else will cover for you or pay the price BUT you and that in any situation, you should never lose control (as he had). That, to me, was the biggest example of humility because he accepted his actions in stride and blamed no one but himself for what happened. He's already repented for his actions, but somehow my former instructor and everybody else who dissed him couldn't see that... while the students (like me and a couple other people my age about) he taught himself (because my former instructor wasn't even there half the time to do it himself 'cuz he's so busy doing other things) saw that while yeah, Jim acted completely out of character, but hey, he repented by teaching us the best way he knew how not to ever lose control like he did outside that club. That's one of the most precious lessons I ever had pounded into my intellecutal senses by anybody, aside from having complete faith in my person... to Jim, wherever he is now. *salutes* === * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * Vengence of the righteous strikes home to reap the rewards from the faulty. Kim * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: No1IDIC@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 20:45:08 EDT Subject: the_dojang: cinder record << Does anyone know who holds the records for most boards broken, biggest broken, etc.? Any info regarding where I could find this information out would also be great! >> I saw a picture from a newspaper clipping 2 yrs. ago that showed an Australian gent breaking 15 cinder blocks. wish I had a referance for you but that's all I remember. Dawne ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: and rotate my cuff while you're under the hood, doc... FYI to all... My rotator cuff surgery is still scheduled for this coming Wednesday, 7/21. The digest will probably be down for a day or two or three or four or ?? starting Wednesday AM. Ray Terry ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #357 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.