From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #358 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 19 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 358 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #357 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #357 the_dojang: Re: Who will attack you? the_dojang: Grand Opening the_dojang: appropriate comment here??? the_dojang: Whacking the Larnyx.... the_dojang: Re: Mr. Terry's surgery the_dojang: What goes up... the_dojang: Well wishes the_dojang: Re: Who will attack you the_dojang: Re: Jump-around kicks the_dojang: rotating the cuffs ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LJSFLEM@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:15:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #357 In a message dated 7/19/99 1:03:56 AM !!!First Boot!!!, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << rom: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 17:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: and rotate my cuff while you're under the hood, doc... FYI to all... My rotator cuff surgery is still scheduled for this coming Wednesday, 7/21. The digest will probably be down for a day or two or three or four or ?? starting Wednesday AM. Ray Terry >> Ray: all the best for your upcoming surgery. I pray you are stronger and have a greater ability to tolerate pain than my chiropractor's spouse did. Best wishes for a speedy successful recovery. Lorraine ------------------------------ From: Hapkido64@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:40:00 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #357 In a message dated 7/18/99 6:02:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << FYI to all... My rotator cuff surgery is still scheduled for this coming Wednesday, 7/21. The digest will probably be down for a day or two or three or four or ?? starting Wednesday AM. Ray Terry >> Good luck Ray, I had RC surgery back in 93. Went great considering I had tore it completely off, worst case scenario possible according to the doc ------------------------------ From: "J. Dudley" Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:14:08 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Who will attack you? Hello, all. I can believe the statistics, that you are far more likely to be attacked by someone you know than a stranger. I had a co-worker whose life was threatened by other co-workers. This can make self-defense complicated for several reasons: 1. you may have believed you could trust the person who turns out to be an attacker and be shocked into inaction when they attack or make threats; 2. you may be so caught up in "I'm right, he's wrong, he isn't going to run me off" that you may not retreat when you should; 3. you may train to fight someone from a proper fighting stance, and never have trained to fight from a sitting position, etc. Whereas if your attacker is a random stranger on the street, it might be much easier to react and defend yourself effectively. Thoughts? Opinions? Ray, hope your surgery is a breeze and you are soon back with the digest. Jane jdudley@inna.net ------------------------------ From: No1IDIC@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:55:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Grand Opening << WANTED: S/W/F BB to share joys and passions for running a fulltime MA School. Must have Black Belt and be willing to cross train in other disciplines. Send picture of form. What daya tink? Might work? HAHA. John Hancock >> well, at least you didn't say "send picture of the boat". Best of luck in your endeavor to find an instructor. I hope you enjoy your ribbon cutting ceremony, all the good food and hope you have a big turn out. Dawne ------------------------------ From: No1IDIC@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:59:01 EDT Subject: the_dojang: appropriate comment here??? << My rotator cuff surgery is still scheduled for this coming Wednesday, 7/21. The digest will probably be down for a day or two or three or four or ?? starting Wednesday AM. Ray Terry >> Ray, Insert appropriate sentiment here "_________________________" don't quite know what to say to someone going in for surgery. "hope all goes well". does that work? Dawne ------------------------------ From: The Daemon Thomas Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 22:18:12 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Whacking the Larnyx.... > Steven Gilmore wrote, replying to someone else: > > >In the Hapkido Dojang where train we are commonly taught control and > >minimum force maneuvers. > > > >As a white belt a year ago the some of the first things I learned (after > >learning how to break a grab) where: reacting to someone grabing my shirt > >by raising my hands between their arms and putting my thumbs together and > >pressing the lowest point on their larynx which forces them to gag which > >gives me time to do whatever I want (alternatively you can push your thumbs > >into their eyes which distracts the hell out of them and accomplishes the > >same thing) > > I consider poking my fingers into somebody's larynx or eyes an > INAPPROPRIATE response to having my SHIRT grabbed. Considering it is a basic drill to teach techniques defending against front grabs, it is also applicable as a basic building block for a series of techniques useful against any type of frontal grab, from a choke to about anything else you can think of. Similarly, poking someone in the eyes really isn't that serious, depending on how you do it. And most importantly, it is a great way to distract an attacker so that you can attempt to escape. Actually, the most important part of it is that it is _easy_. Many people try to teach joint locks as the basics of self-defense----and they aren't very basic. Even the easiest joints locks are MUCH more difficult to learn and execute on a resisting opponent than a simple eye poke. Also, the larnyx technique isn't quite what you think. :) It isn't a strike, though it can be (if the situation is serious enough to require it) ---you use the points of the thumbs to press in slightly above the hollow of the throat, in a slightly upwards angle. At this point, it is easy to cause pain (and panic) but isn't likely (at all) to damage either the windpipe or the larnyx. Now, if it is applied higher, that is a different story. Which is a good thing, because this reaction can be used for an entire set of levels of attack. > You might want to find > out if your HapKiDo teaches some variation "eue bohk soo" (clothing > technique) where you respond to a shirt grab by simply joint-locking the > offending arm -- and why not, since by grabbing you they have put a number > of very-easily-attacked joints within your convenient reach. In Kuk Sool > Won, "eue bohk soo" is begun at yellow belt level. If the gentleman is studying with Larry Hampton, yellow belt is where locks start to be taught. However, the point of beginner's levels is that the techniques should be simple----yet effective. Joint locks ARE effective---but much harder to use on a resisting attacker. They give a much better level of control, so their use is a good thing when possible---but white belts aren't ready for that, and from the beginning, many hapkido classes attempt to teach useful techniques right from the start. > And there seems to be a misconception that joint-locks are inherently > less-dangerous to the attacker: WRONG. A joint-lock can cause pain (the > lowest level), dislocation (higher) or crippling damage that even a > talented medical team will have difficulty reversing (the highest level). > The "safety" of a joint-lock is entirely in the discretion of the performer. Quite so. Similarly for the eye poke and throat push mentioned above. (In my class, we call it the "throat thing." :) > This whole topic disturbs me because it appears that: (a) many people have > no clue as to the laws regarding "self-defense" -- and that if they react > with this "I'm gunna bust yer $*#!& head with my powerful kick" mentality > they are begging for a boatload of legal trouble that they could have > avoided with some education (b) a lot of what is being taught is not > relevant to the context of modern attack, e.g., domestic violence (c) that > Tae-Bo and similar things (like sparring with pads and judges and rules) > are creating false confidence as to one's ability to defend oneself. I'm not sure how this relates to what the earlier gentleman said. (Sorry! I forget to save the name.) I do agree that many people aren't taught the law regarding self-defense, nor are they taught how real self-defense working, or even good technique for it. However, the techniques spoken of earlier aren't of the "mess with me, and I'll rip out your eyes" type. Matter of fact, I can think of a situation in my past where I used the pads of my fingers to tap the eyes of an attacker who grabbed me with one hand, and was ready to punch me with another. It was a front grab, and my reaction (initially) was straight from my white belt days. My followup was a joint lock, but what made THAT easy was that simple, quick, white belt technique. The eye tap caused no damage, merely made him blink and stop for a moment, re-arranging his thinking. I COULD have used that technique to do severe damage to his eyes----but that doesn't mean I had to. You train to react appropriately to the situation. J. Thomas Howard Nebraska Hapkido Association ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:02:40 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Mr. Terry's surgery >From: Ray Terry >My rotator cuff surgery is still scheduled for this coming Wednesday, 7/21. >The digest will probably be down for a day or two or three or four or ?? >starting Wednesday AM. Mr. Terry, I know I speak on behalf of many other members of the list: Have a speedy recovery. We will try to get by without the list for a few days, but remember that over 700 of us depend on you to recover and get the list back on the road :-) Kamsahamnida. Stan Lim slim@employees.org ps: If Mr. Terry provides us with his hospital and room number, who is up for visiting him? Drop me a note if you want to go in a group. ------------------------------ From: 4karate@bellsouth.net Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 23:14:37 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: What goes up... I was wondering if anybody could help me on how to get my jump spin kick, jump around spin kick, and jump around side kick down. Thanks I thought the whole idea was to get them "UP" not "down" *smirk* /-D JH ------------------------------ From: Kim Jones Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Well wishes Ray-- Hope the surgery goes smoothly as it can go. === "Vengence of the righteous strikes home to reap the rewards from the faulty." Kim Jones (ladytimberland@yahoo.com) homepage: http://members.tripod.com/NekoChan00/ AOL IM: TKDGemini _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:33:13 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Who will attack you [< >In the Hapkido Dojang where train we are commonly taught control and >minimum force maneuvers. > >As a white belt a year ago the some of the first things I learned (after >learning how to break a grab) where: reacting to someone grabing my shirt >by raising my hands between their arms and putting my thumbs together and >pressing the lowest point on their larynx which forces them to gag which >gives me time to do whatever I want (alternatively you can push your thumbs >into their eyes which distracts the hell out of them and accomplishes the >same thing) I consider poking my fingers into somebody's larynx or eyes an INAPPROPRIATE response to having my SHIRT grabbed.>>] Why? And I ask this sincerily. If someone attacks me and starts by grabbing my shirt it's still an attack. Once someone attacks me I feel that any response is appropriate, short of a response meant to kill (assuming the attacker isn't trying to kill me in which case all bets are off). FWIW, my instructor explained that the aforementioned lessons were taught to demonstrate that there are non-damaging methods one can use against an attacker. Pushing your thumbs into the base of an attacker's larynx is meant to distract them by triggering their gag reflex. Pushing your thumbs into an attacker's eyes is also incredibly distracting. Both moves will get someone off you in a hurry. Yet neither move will cause permanent damage. And both moves are very intimidating. The intent is to make your attacker back off and not want to come back. If someone attacks you they are expecting to get hit back, maybe grappled, maybe pushed or thrown. They are not expecting to have thumbs pushed into their larynx or eyes. The belief of my instructor is that if you stick your thumbs into their eyes and push them away they probably won't be coming back for more. You avoid the fight. They walk away rubbing their eyes, but they'll recover. If I put someone in a joint lock I may have to use it. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not break someone's arm if I can avoid it. [<>] Yes it does. Right now I'm learning many variations of wrist locks and some elbow locks. But at my level of experience I'd probably break the joint in the process of puting the lock on in the context of an actual attack. So my preference would be to defend myself with a less damaging move. After a couple of years when my technique with locks is fine-tuned they will probably be my maneuver of choice (or maybe not, who knows?). But for now, my plan is to use intimidating moves or basic strikes to defend myself on the off chance someone attacks me. All of this is in my humble opinion of course :) - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "One little smile can fill the room with sunshine." ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:51:05 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Jump-around kicks [<>] Practice the most basic form of the kicks (i.e., side kick or spin kick) and get those down. Then work on adding the jump. Also, spend time practicing all of your basic kicks. If your spin kick is good, but your having problems with your jump spin kick, you might try practicing the jump spin without the kick, and then add the kick. Ask for help from your instructor and other high belts. Don't be afraid to use their experience and eyes to your benefit :) - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all of our lives." - -Einstein ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 07:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: rotating the cuffs Thanks to everyone for their well wishes. I had my left shoulder fixed ~5 years ago. Now it is time to repair the torn rotator cuff in the right shoulder. As I recall it hurt like hell for a few days, but then things got better. Honey, could you pass me another Vicodin, please... :) No visitors please. Just send little pictures of US Presidents. That always makes me feel much better... :) Ray ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #358 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.