From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #367 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 24 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 367 In this issue: the_dojang: Get Well... the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 the_dojang: Avoiding a Fight the_dojang: Re:Corporation the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 the_dojang: Another ITF\WTF Q&A ? the_dojang: To fight or not to fight.... the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 the_dojang: RE: Avioding a fight the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 the_dojang: The Science of TKD Fighting the_dojang: 1999 Junior Olympics the_dojang: Re: broken boards the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 the_dojang: Re: credit where due the_dojang: Thanks ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "aparedes" Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:48:10 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Get Well... Ray get well Soon... Alex Paredes Aparedes@gateway.net World Chang Moo Kwan 3rd Dan www.geocities.com/colosseum/arena/8129/index.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------- " A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher." Luke 6:40 ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:20:20 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 From: 4karate@bellsouth.net > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:49:39 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: He's a TKD Cyclops! > > > Surgery over. Pain bad, but the Vicodin helps. Rather difficult to type > > w/one hand... > > > > Ray Terry > Fastest "hand" in the west. :) > Take care Ray. Have another vicoden on me (and chase it with a beer for effect). oooo. hallucinations..see the pretty colors...:) - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:21:47 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 From: 4karate@bellsouth.net > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:49:39 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: He's a TKD Cyclops! > > > Surgery over. Pain bad, but the Vicodin helps. Rather difficult to type > > w/one hand... > > > > Ray Terry > Fastest "hand" in the west. :) > Take care Ray. Have another vicoden on me (and chase it with a beer for effect). oooo. hallucinations..see the pretty colors...:) - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:21:47 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 From: 4karate@bellsouth.net > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:49:39 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: He's a TKD Cyclops! > > > Surgery over. Pain bad, but the Vicodin helps. Rather difficult to type > > w/one hand... > > > > Ray Terry > Fastest "hand" in the west. :) > Take care Ray. Have another vicoden on me (and chase it with a beer for effect). oooo. hallucinations..see the pretty colors...:) - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:21:47 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 From: 4karate@bellsouth.net > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:49:39 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: He's a TKD Cyclops! > > > Surgery over. Pain bad, but the Vicodin helps. Rather difficult to type > > w/one hand... > > > > Ray Terry > Fastest "hand" in the west. :) > Take care Ray. Have another vicoden on me (and chase it with a beer for effect). oooo. hallucinations..see the pretty colors...:) - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: Jonna Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Avoiding a Fight > heard many people say "If you can avoid the fight don't fight." Now > I think > that if you really don't want to fight, anyone can avoid it. > Eventually the > other person will walk away if you keep avoiding it. Kadin, You can always avoid fighting, if you don't believe in it. However, you may be punched, kicked, stabbed, shot, maimed, or killed while you choose not to fight back. For some people, that is acceptable. For others, it is not. Best of luck in beginning your study of martial arts. Jonna _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: MRowe@ids.sitel.net Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:40:45 GMT Subject: the_dojang: Re:Corporation Another aspect that is important and nobody ever seems to think about is the possibility of Bankruptcy. If the school is incorporated then if you have to file Bankruptcy for any reason then its assets are protected, you will still be able to keep the school going and all its equipment will not be forced into liquidation. If you are a sole proprietorship then the courts can go for the schools assests as well as your personal assets. This also works in the reverse. If you build a good school and and things are going great but suddenly, for who knows what reasons, you are in over your head and must close. A sole prop. must pay all bills and will eventually be effected in their own credit ratings. A corporations will be able to take some of these debts and keep them from being associated with yourself - Mind you bank loans usually take a personal guarantee from the Corp. President in Small Business. Its not just the liability there is so much more. Also if you don't have a lawyer and an accountant giving you advice you are some day going to get burned. At least have a Tax Accountant give you advice come Filing time. It is worth it if you are ever Audited. Mike Rowe ------------------------------ From: Kim Jones Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 Hot chocolate and auditing DON'T mix at all, especially on three hours of sleep, so if I don't make sense, you now know why... I've been up since 0400 Friday morning (today), and I'm starting to confuse myself. Geez... > From: "kadin goldberg" > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:52:03 MDT > Subject: the_dojang: Only fight when you cant avoid a fight? > > I am not a martial artist but I am going to take classes soon. Now I > have heard many people say "If you can avoid the fight don't fight." > Now I think that if you really don't want to fight, anyone can avoid it. > Eventually the other person will walk away if you keep avoiding it. > Just wondering what this is all about. Sounds like you hit the nail on the head. BAsically, it's something my to solve matters that can easily be solved otherwise, you'll screw yourself over because someone will outsmart you and overcome with much dad always tells me about... be aware of your surroundings, don't put yourself in a situation you can't get out of, always have two escape routes, da da da, da da da... plus, it should NEVER be in your nature to willingly fight it out when you can just as easily walk away from the physical and focus on more relevant mental issues. To paraphrase Sun Tzu (can't find the passage I'm looking for), if you use just brute strength more ease. In other news, I'm now a red belt! YES! I've finally gotten past 4th geub... and I also owe GM Kim 50 pushups when I get back to class Monday because I only stopped thru today to tell him I was taking it easy because my injured foot was not feeling good this morning, and the large amounts of caffeine running through my system combined with all the walking I did today isn't helping my poor foot any. Plus, I was not in uniform... but I was only stopping by quickly. Oh well... he was in a relatively good mood... pushups fly when he's in a good mood especially. But being the baby of the class doesn't help the situation at all either, but hey! To buff the arms (and the whoel body for that matter), I'll take anything you can throw at me... well, not speaking literally. :) Chairs don't feel good... trust me. But at any rate... Kukkiwon is now... probably set for the earliest as November, considering I donn't do anything stupid between now and late October. But I'm happy... the past three months have been hell as I have been elevated from mediocrity to a new continuum of an upward climb, but every single bruise, sore muscle, and drop of sweat have been worth it... to include the blood I tossed in as an added bonus. *sigh* It doesn't get any easier, but if it did, we'd all be cheated of what's dear to us. Ray, glad to hear you survived the knife! Being incoherent is not good, being incapacitated is not good. Hope the recovery is swift and smooth!!! === "Vengence of the righteous strikes home to reap the rewards from the faulty." Kim Jones (ladytimberland@yahoo.com) homepage: http://members.tripod.com/NekoChan00/ AOL IM: TKDGemini _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Chris McKenna Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:01:56 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Another ITF\WTF Q&A ? I was wondering if anyone who reads this newsletter could fill me in with some information. I am new to this newsletter and to internet discussions but have been doing TKD for about six years. I practice Global TaeKwon-do (under GM Park Jung-Tae). Now I know that GM Park helped General Choi Hung Hi (and others, of course) develop what we now know as "ITF" style TKD and I am well aware that there is the WTF style. (Which seams far more widespread, (judging by the amount of American websites), than it is where I am from, Central Scotland, UK). From the web sites that have both ITF and WTF history pages I have read on both that General Choi is listed as the founder/unifier, of what is now described as modern-day TKD. But if the forms/patterns of each of the styles is so vastly different then why is WTF so called. I plead ignorance of the history of WTF and I have not found any explanation (On the Web or elsewhere), as to why it was split/changed/whatever. Also I don't actually know any WTF blackbelts personally to just simply ask them. I know that there is many differences/similarities in each aspect of the two types. But I don't know what they are. If I ask any of the ITF/GTF blackbelts that I know I just get a sort of blank look whilst they say something along the lines of 'Korean Karate....mumble mumble..poor technique...mumble mumble'. I have always wanted to avoid an "Ours is better than yours" argument\discussion , but I also wanted to understand how these two martial arts are different/similar and how they ended up that way! ( Also, I myself have been asked and I had to plead ignorance) I would hate to offend/upset any WTF practitioner by asking these questions and if they have already been answered by previous newsletters then perhaps someone could point me in that direction. Yours looking forward to a non-biased discussion about my hobby/wayof life/sport. Chris McKenna Central Scotland PS. My apologies if this is not normal/typical material for this newsletter. ------------------------------ From: "Alexander, Stephen (Nexfor)" Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:23:37 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: To fight or not to fight.... Kadin wrote: >>I am not a martial artist but I am going to take classes soon. Now I have heard many people say "If you can avoid the fight don't fight." Now I think that if you really don't want to fight, anyone can avoid it. Eventually the other person will walk away if you keep avoiding it. Just wondering what this is all about.<< The statement "If you can avoid the fight don't fight" does not only apply to martial artists, it applies to everyone. It's common sense to most. I agree that it's possible to avoid a fight if it is just someone trying to prove a point by getting in your face or being a bully, but there are times when one can't avoid a fight, such as if you get attacked from behind while walking down the street. At this point I don't think your attacker will simply walk away because you don't want to fight. (on the other hand you may be able to avoid the fight by complying with your assailants demands. i.e. "gimme your wallet dude") The idea of being able to reason with a person in order to avoid a fight, or to have the chance to take flight from a situation is what I think the "If you can avoid the fight don't fight" statement means. Kadin I thought you were looking at taking some type of Karate?? what's up, did you find a school? Or, better yet have you decided to take up the most honourable art of Taekwondo? ;-> Steve Alexander Student of the Martial Arts. War never decides who is right, only who is left. ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:48:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 > > > From: "kadin goldberg" > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:52:03 MDT > Subject: the_dojang: Only fight when you cant avoid a fight? > > I am not a martial artist but I am going to take classes soon. Now I have > heard many people say "If you can avoid the fight don't fight." Now I think > that if you really don't want to fight, anyone can avoid it. Eventually the > other person will walk away if you keep avoiding it. Just wondering what > this is all about. > You are correct in that the best way to avoid a fight is to try to get away from your aggressor. That is the mental aspect of your training. However, some people are too stupid/aggressive/braindead/whatever to let you get away. They see your passive behaviour as a sign of cowardice and being the ingrained bullies that they are, they will continue the attack rather than lay off. That is where the physical aspect of your training comes into play. ------------------------------ From: "Atchinson, Kerry M" Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:51:11 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Avioding a fight > From: "kadin goldberg" > Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:52:03 MDT > Subject: the_dojang: Only fight when you cant avoid a fight? > > I am not a martial artist but I am going to take classes soon. Now I have > > heard many people say "If you can avoid the fight don't fight." Now I > think > that if you really don't want to fight, anyone can avoid it. Eventually > the > other person will walk away if you keep avoiding it. Just wondering what > this is all about. > > - ---Kadin > > > Kadin, if only this were the case. Unfortunately some folks have an exaggerated and skewed sense of "honor" ("HEY! YOU LOOKIN AT MY WOMAN?") and some people are just plain mean. "If you can avoid the fight, don't" is definitely the best approach, but we need to be realistic and be ready for that once in a lifetime when walking away doesn't work. Kerry ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:57:48 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 In a message dated 7/22/99 8:48:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << << Surgery over. Pain bad, but the Vicodin helps. Rather difficult to type w/one hand... >> Vicodin!! Wow! Last time I was on that stuff I had to cut my own dose in half! One pill knocked me out cold. Sure it takes away the pain, but it would leave me more stoned than a canary at a Dead concert. :) You take care, Ray. Best of luck with the shoulder and hope you return to training soon. >> Dear Ray, With the JOs and my getting packed to move to Colorado, I missed your surgical episode. What did you have done and what is your prognosis? I'm hoping for the best for you. When the pain peaks, take another vicodin and play a Grateful Dead record. I recommend "American Beauty" for such occasions. SESIlz ------------------------------ From: KKrotish@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:25:13 EDT Subject: the_dojang: The Science of TKD Fighting Hello all, Volume 3 of "The Science of TKD Fighting" video series is now available. This is an incredible resource by Dr. Jin Bang YANG of Yong-In University in Korea. Check out all the details and order on line at: www.tkd-edu-resource.com If you haven't seen these tapes yet, you're missing out. They are awesome! Keith Krotish ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:23:11 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: 1999 Junior Olympics First, Thanks to all who sent public & private e-mails congratulating my Wife and My Son, I am very proud of Both of them and I am a lucky man to have them. Someone asked me of my impression of the 1999 Las Vegas Junior Olympics; Let me qualify my remarks in advance by letting you know that this was my first National USTU event - so my only reference is with much, much smaller state and local tournaments. I did however actively volunteer my services in Registration, Staging / Ring control and for the majority, Medical. I believe these experiences coupled with my impression as a spectator and parent gave me a much more comprehensive perspective than I would have otherwise had, but again - this was my first National Event. This Post may be a bit Long, - my apologies. Ok Here goes: REGISTRATION - Tuesday July 13: I volunteered in Registration registering Coaches, Qualified Coaches, and Support persons (The Yellow Badge People). From my perspective as a former NCOIC at a large personnel inprocessing center in Korea - the USTU did a Very good Job. The vast majority of the problems / hold-ups were with people who did not have the Necessary documents, Mainly USTU Membership and/or Kukkiwon Certification (for Coaches). We did have a computer available which was able to quickly verify USTU Membership for those who had just recently paid their 1999 dues but had not yet received their card. It was an exhausting day and I give Mucho Kudos to Edwin, Julie, Tinker, Mike Pejo, and Mr. Dae Sung Lee and everyone else. My suggestion(s) for future events. 1) Post Very Visibly the requirements for the Various Passes. This would allow people who haven't registered with the USTU or Haven't yet received their Kukkiwon Certification etc. to filter to the appropriate troubleshooting/registration line initially. This would speed up the process for those individuals who sent in and/or brought the appropriate documentation, and it would prevent the frustrating experience of waiting in a long line just to be told that you had to get in another line.... 2) State Presidents, School Owners - PLEASE Encourage your competitors, coaches etc. to BRING COPIES OF ALL THEIR PAPERWORK, and send things registered Mail with Return Receipt. With literally Thousands and Thousands of Packets there will be some screw ups. If you have all your Paperwork that would be an Instant Fix... STAGING - WENDSDAY JULY 14 - I volunteered in the Back Staging area for the most part, and a couple of times out in the rings. Some friends and I arrived Early to Help out, and we were given assignments, and the "coveted red shirts". Their were several adults who attempted to volunteer - some of whom had worked several USTU Events in the past, but were told "They had enough Volunteers" - in essence thanks but no thanks. As a result, the Majority of Volunteers were inexperienced Teenagers (granted I was also inexperienced , but I had worked State Tournaments before). I was told by someone - Don't know if its true - That the Teenage Volunteers were kids of the Las Vegas Convention Center Staff. The Staging area was Loud, Cramped, uncomfortable and Chaotic. some of the Teenage Volunteers didn't seem to understand the importance of separating kids by the assigned weight divisions and/or double checking the kids Weigh-in weight with their earlier registered weight division (I found one kid who weighed in at 127 pounds staged in a group whose top weight was 105). Kids waited hours on Hard Concrete Floors with a PA system Blasting. No Bathrooms in sight, and only the few Volunteers or Support Personnel back with the Kids - most of whom were too busy to escort the little guys to the bathroom clear on the other side of the arena. No food for the contestants - Not enough room to effectively warm - up / practice - - Little guys Just waiting and waiting, many would not compete until well past their bedtime. Clearly not an environment conducive to competitive excellence. Suggestions: 1) Larger Staging Area, Have mats on the Floors 2) Have available Box Lunches, periodic Snacks (fruit) & drinks for the Kids who might miss a meal. Have Toiletting Facilities reasonably close - these are kids after all. 3) Encourage rather than discourage Parental Volunteers. *** 4) Rather than have 8-9 yr. olds compete Wednesday, 11-12 yr. olds Compete Thursday etc. Why not have Green Belts compete Day 1, Blue Belts Day 2, Red Belts Day 3, Black Belts Day 4? You could then Stage the Day Starting with the youngest, and ending with the older Kids. Just because a kid is a Black belt does not mean he has any more stamina than any other 8-9 year old; I would however, expect a 15 year old to be able to weather longer hours than an 8-9 year old . MEDICAL Thursday 15 July & Saturday 17 July - (I am an Emergency room R.N. ) Thursday I worked Medical Triage, Saturday I worked the Floor. Trish Bare did a remarkable Job - We had our own little MASH Tent set up back their. I learned a great deal about Preventing and treating Sports injuries within the context of active competition From Trish as well as the Student Athletic Trainers. We had on hand (Volunteers): Trish Bare, 3 Athletic Trainer Students, a Cardiologist, an OB-GYN Family Practitioner (MD's) Two Sports Medicine / Chiropractors (Doctors), Two RN's, and a Paramedic. There was also a Las Vegas Paramedic Crew on-hand throughout. We routinely kept 4-5 Medical personnel on the floor with the rest "in the tent" I was not working medical when the woman spectator suffered the fatal heart attack, in fact I didn't know anything had happened until hours later when my wife told me. Someone commented that "there were no paramedics - it took 20 minutes for an ambulance to arrive". Let me state what I know: There WERE paramedics there - I spoke with the crew that responded, They were at the Convention Center When it happened- and they said the delay was caused by having to get through the crowd to reach the victim. A concern I (and several other medical & non-medical types) had was the increased risk of injury for the exhausted kids who had been waiting all day long. I recall one Irate mother whose 11yr Old black Belt son had "walked" into a head shot while he was competing - at about 11:30 at night. She screamed "I won't let him stay up this late on a weekend ! Why does the USTU think he should be competitively sparring this late ?!?" - I think she had a valid point. I think the USTU did an excellent Job of ensuring adequate (in fact excellent) on-site medical care./ Trish bare did a Fantastic Job as did all the Volunteers. The Las Vegas Convention Center however did an abysmal job of ensuring crowd control (and it was the LVCC's responsibility). I can't recall seeing ONE security person until the second or third day, and then the "Security Officers" were totally ineffectual and inattentive Lil' Ol' Ladies. Suggestions: 1) Suggest to the Stadium / venue's executives that they Post the Chief of Security at or very close to the Medical Tent to ensure rapid response and crowd control. 2) As previously mentioned Adjust the competition schedule so that the younger kids will compete earlier AS A SPECTATOR : Overall, I really like the Electronic Scoring System. It allows the spectator to truly get a feel for the match. I would like to see larger video display monitors though. There were a few times when it appeared that two points were scored for one kick (despite my assurances to the contrary My wife is convinced that "at Nationals you get two points for a head shot"). There apparently are some bugs to still be worked out - but all in all, the electronic system is Orders of Magnitude better than the old paper system. Some Referee/Judging issues: I understand the pool of Referees was diminished by the decision not to allow referees to coach, I understand the rationale, but I think the USTU may have cheated itself out of some of America's Best referees. I personally know of at least two IR's who were not allowed to Referee because they had to coach a few players. My family and I and many, many kids witnessed a physical altercation between a coach and a referee. The coach was ejected, the Referee was allowed to remain in the ring as Corner Judge. Both should have been removed immediately from the ring and taken to a private area where "the Powers that be" could determine appropriate punitive action. I think allowing the Ref in question to remain in the ring sent a mixed message to our children.... Finally, The seating at the Las Vegas Convention Center was inadequate for the number of spectators. Those in the bottom 3 rows couldn't see because of the people standing by the barricades, and the people were standing at the barricades because they couldn't see and/or there weren't enough seats. All in all I think the USTU did a good Job, although there is definitely room for improvement. As I mentioned this was My first National, so I Personally have nothing to appropriately compare it to. Oh yeah, I almost forgot - I must say Shame on USTU for running out of Medals - that's an easy Math problem given the number of competitors and competitive categories were known beforehand......and How much will it cost to Ship the Medals to the winners???? Oh well, Someone Asked what My impression was - and now you know Sorry for the length of the post, but it was an interesting experience Eric Mueller ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:09:39 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: broken boards In a message dated 7/22/99 8:48:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << he instructor inscribed one half of it with some saying or some such for the student, while the student did the same for the instructor. I don't know how common this is, but I've always thought it was terribly nice. >> that's a really neat idea. i like that. melinda ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:07:11 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #366 In a message dated 7/22/99 8:48:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Sure it takes away the pain, but it would leave me more stoned than a canary at a Dead concert. :) >> actually, when i had to take it, i still hurt like hel!, but i just didnt care...lol. :) melinda ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:12:52 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: credit where due In a message dated 7/22/99 8:48:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << you can get free info from www.score.com. >> btw, i forgot to mention that i learned that tidbit from cynthia. this was also brought to you by the letter M and the number 7. :) melinda ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 07:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Thanks Thanks to everyone for the warm wishes. I've recieved lots of email, but can't respond yet. Too difficult to type. Ray Terry ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #367 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.