From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #368 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 25 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 368 In this issue: the_dojang: Another ITF\WTF Q&A ? the_dojang: Junior Olympics the_dojang: Re: 1999 Jr. Olympics the_dojang: Re: Games to Play the_dojang: more videoclips ......................................................................... The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: YMCATKD@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 20:10:34 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Another ITF\WTF Q&A ? <> To answer this properly would entail a rather long history lesson however I will try to provide a brief answer for you. Originally Taekwondo was not really Korean in origin, the early Korean masters had studied Japanese karate(most agree Shotokan) while at Japanese Universities. After World War II and the liberation of Korea from the Japanese several "kwans" were started. Some of these kwans were started as early as 1945. One these Kwans was the supposedly founded by General Choi, Hong Hi in 1953 I think. During the mid 50's the different kwans talked about using one name for the style they all practiced and I think in 1957(year could be wrong) they coined the name Taekwondo. Than sometime around 1970 General Choi went to North Korea to try to spread Taekwondo on some kind of goodwill trip. The Korean government did not like this trip to North Korea and from what I understand he was either asked to leave or forced to leave Korea. General Choi than formed the International Taekwon-Do Federation and the South Korean government helped set up the World Taekwondo Federation and the Kukkiwon. <> First we must start with the difference between the 2 organizations......the WTF is the world governing body for the martial art/sport of TKD and the ITF belongs to General Choi just like a business. Just like you I dont want to get involved in a discussion of which is better but I will write this and hope not to offend anyone. I am not an expert on the ITF program however from my limited experience with their schools they seem to do things the old ways. When I say the old way I mean they have not improved things the way the WTF has. The WTF has put much energy into the sport of TKD and this has resulted in different mechanics for most all of the kicks. In addition, the Korea Taekwondo Association runs a very tight ship from what I understand. Instructors have to meet regularly for training so that they all stay on the same program. The differences in the sparring seems to be a large difference as well....the WTF program states that sparring is performed full contact and points are not given unless "trembling shock" was created by the impact of the technique. This WTF sparring does not allow kicking to the head in an effort to promote kicking. The ITF schools may or may not have contact but never in the same way. The best way to see the difference is to buy tapes of tournments or go watch one. ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 21:43:12 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Junior Olympics Eric Mueller posted: Ok Here goes: REGISTRATION - Tuesday July 13: I volunteered in Registration registering Coaches, Qualified Coaches, and Support persons (The Yellow Badge People). From my perspective as a former NCOIC at a large personnel inprocessing center in Korea - the USTU did a Very good Job. The vast majority of the problems / hold-ups were with people who did not have the Necessary documents, Mainly USTU Membership and/or Kukkiwon Certification (for Coaches). We did have a computer available which was able to quickly verify USTU Membership for those who had just recently paid their 1999 dues but had not yet received their card. It was an exhausting day and I give Mucho Kudos to Edwin, Julie, Tinker, Mike Pejo, and Mr. Dae Sung Lee and everyone else. My suggestion(s) for future events. 1) Post Very Visibly the requirements for the Various Passes. This would allow people who haven't registered with the USTU or Haven't yet received their Kukkiwon Certification etc. to filter to the appropriate troubleshooting/registration line initially. This would speed up the process for those individuals who sent in and/or brought the appropriate documentation, and it would prevent the frustrating experience of waiting in a long line just to be told that you had to get in another line....>> I would add here that it was confusing as the office staff was telling coaches one thing and the Coach and Science Chair another. In my conversations with him, he told me and he practiced this - NO KUKKIOWN - NO PROTEST RIGHTS. So he downgraded some qualified coaches to plain coaches. At registration however, they downgraded anyone without a kukkiwon to "team Support". This pisses off a lot of coaches even though there is no difference in cost or responsiblity for team support and plain coach. Several coaches wanted to buy coaches passes at the last minute. To his credit Sammy Pejo did not allow anyone to violate the rules on this. If you make an exception for one, you will be doing for others. I however beleive, we should TAKE THEIR MONEY - charge them double - let them coach. Let's be user-friendly. But let's also make it fair - pay late - pay more. What difference does it make if we late them pay for their coaches pass late - let them coach - but charge them more. 2) State Presidents, School Owners - PLEASE Encourage your competitors, coaches etc. to BRING COPIES OF ALL THEIR PAPERWORK, and send things registered Mail with Return Receipt. With literally Thousands and Thousands of Packets there will be some screw ups. If you have all your Paperwork that would be an Instant Fix...>>> I felt that it helped that I as State President was there volunteering and available. Although I have to admit to being miffed at losing my turn to center when I had to leave my ring and go sign some papers for someone who lost theirs - but that is/was my first responsiblity. I think having the state presidents there and available is a good idea - but few if any would do it. STAGING - WENDSDAY JULY 14 - I volunteered in the Back Staging area for the most part, and a couple of times out in the rings. Some friends and I arrived Early to Help out, and we were given assignments, and the "coveted red shirts". Their were several adults who attempted to volunteer - some of whom had worked several USTU Events in the past, but were told "They had enough Volunteers" - in essence thanks but no thanks. As a result, the Majority of Volunteers were inexperienced Teenagers (granted I was also inexperienced , but I had worked State Tournaments before). I was told by someone - Don't know if its true - That the Teenage Volunteers were kids of the Las Vegas Convention Center Staff.>>> Actually, they were paid by the Convention Center. Members of the Tournament committee discussed how much better it would be to use those who have at least state experience. And it was very discouraging to see so many of those coveted red shirts sitting in the stands and not working. I think our parents would ahve been more dedicated. >> The Staging area was Loud, Cramped, uncomfortable and Chaotic. some of the Teenage Volunteers didn't seem to understand the importance of separating kids by the assigned weight divisions and/or double checking the kids Weigh-in weight with their earlier registered weight division (I found one kid who weighed in at 127 pounds staged in a group whose top weight was 105). Kids waited hours on Hard Concrete Floors with a PA system Blasting. No Bathrooms in sight, and only the few Volunteers or Support Personnel back with the Kids - most of whom were too busy to escort the little guys to the bathroom clear on the other side of the arena. No food for the contestants - Not enough room to effectively warm - up / practice - - - Little guys Just waiting and waiting, many would not compete until well past their bedtime. Clearly not an environment conducive to competitive excellence. Suggestions: 1) Larger Staging Area, Have mats on the Floors 2) Have available Box Lunches, periodic Snacks (fruit) & drinks for the Kids who might miss a meal. Have Toiletting Facilities reasonably close - these are kids after all. 3) Encourage rather than discourage Parental Volunteers. *** 4) Rather than have 8-9 yr. olds compete Wednesday, 11-12 yr. olds Compete Thursday etc. Why not have Green Belts compete Day 1, Blue Belts Day 2, Red Belts Day 3, Black Belts Day 4? You could then Stage the Day Starting with the youngest, and ending with the older Kids. Just because a kid is a Black belt does not mean he has any more stamina than any other 8-9 year old; I would however, expect a 15 year old to be able to weather longer hours than an 8-9 year old .>>>> I would add the the 2nd day - the USTU did bring in Port-a-Potties. And I would schedule the 14-17 Black Belts on the 2nd day - after the referees had time to get reacquainted with the electronic scoring - and before they are so wiped out that bad judging results. All the kids are important - but the TEAM is vital - we should not be choosing the team when the referees are about to fall on the faces from exhaustion. >>MEDICAL Thursday 15 July & Saturday 17 July - (I am an Emergency room R.N. ) Thursday I worked Medical Triage, Saturday I worked the Floor. Trish Bare did a remarkable Job - We had our own little MASH Tent set up back their. I learned a great deal about Preventing and treating Sports injuries within the context of active competition From Trish as well as the Student Athletic Trainers. We had on hand (Volunteers): Trish Bare, 3 Athletic Trainer Students, a Cardiologist, an OB-GYN Family Practitioner (MD's) Two Sports Medicine / Chiropractors (Doctors), Two RN's, and a Paramedic. There was also a Las Vegas Paramedic Crew on-hand throughout. We routinely kept 4-5 Medical personnel on the floor with the rest "in the tent" I was not working medical when the woman spectator suffered the fatal heart attack, in fact I didn't know anything had happened until hours later when my wife told me. Someone commented that "there were no paramedics - it took 20 minutes for an ambulance to arrive". Let me state what I know: There WERE paramedics there - I spoke with the crew that responded, They were at the Convention Center When it happened- and they said the delay was caused by having to get through the crowd to reach the victim.>> Within 30 seconds of the first call for medical - trish Bare was right there - - not 20 seconds after that Jay Reed from Team Force was there to begin CPR - Jay is a paramedic - he also is a coach, a father, a black belt - While tragic - she could not have gotten help any faster anywhere else in the world. She was in the stands closest to the medical tent. >> A concern I (and several other medical & non-medical types) had was the increased risk of injury for the exhausted kids who had been waiting all day long. I recall one Irate mother whose 11yr Old black Belt son had "walked" into a head shot while he was competing - at about 11:30 at night. She screamed "I won't let him stay up this late on a weekend ! Why does the USTU think he should be competitively sparring this late ?!?" - I think she had a valid point. I think the USTU did an excellent Job of ensuring adequate (in fact excellent) on-site medical care./ Trish bare did a Fantastic Job as did all the Volunteers. The Las Vegas Convention Center however did an abysmal job of ensuring crowd control (and it was the LVCC's responsibility). I can't recall seeing ONE security person until the second or third day, and then the "Security Officers" were totally ineffectual and inattentive Lil' Ol' Ladies. Suggestions: 1) Suggest to the Stadium / venue's executives that they Post the Chief of Security at or very close to the Medical Tent to ensure rapid response and crowd control. 2) As previously mentioned Adjust the competition schedule so that the younger kids will compete earlier AS A SPECTATOR : Overall, I really like the Electronic Scoring System. It allows the spectator to truly get a feel for the match. I would like to see larger video display monitors though. There were a few times when it appeared that two points were scored for one kick (despite my assurances to the contrary My wife is convinced that "at Nationals you get two points for a head shot"). There apparently are some bugs to still be worked out - but all in all, the electronic system is Orders of Magnitude better than the old paper system.>>>> The POOS SYSTEM - what can I say - it is so much better - and easier to see>>>> Some Referee/Judging issues: I understand the pool of Referees was diminished by the decision not to allow referees to coach, I understand the rationale, but I think the USTU may have cheated itself out of some of America's Best referees. I personally know of at least two IR's who were not allowed to Referee because they had to coach a few players.>>> I agree wholeheartedly. >>>My family and I and many, many kids witnessed a physical altercation between a coach and a referee. The coach was ejected, the Referee was allowed to remain in the ring as Corner Judge. Both should have been removed immediately from the ring and taken to a private area where "the Powers that be" could determine appropriate punitive action. I think allowing the Ref in question to remain in the ring sent a mixed message to our children....>>> There was some confusion as to who intitiated etc... But he should ahve been ejected - just as the other referee who was ejected should not have been allowed on the floor later to coach. Oh well, Someone Asked what My impression was - and now you know Sorry for the length of the post, but it was an interesting experience Eric Mueller>>> Eric - I am hurt - you forgot one of the best parts of the JO's!!!! Getting to put faces to so many of my and your Internet friends. It was great to meet you in person finally, as well as others I have im'd or emailed and had never met in person. ------------------------------ From: Julie Jezek Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:08:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: 1999 Jr. Olympics I was also at the Olympics, and I was there to compete. I competed on the last day. Prior to the last day I watched the competition to see what I was getting myself into. And I have to agree with most of what Eric had to say, and yes there was a lot of room for improvement. On the last day, however, there was some. They decided to change the way that sparring was set up. Instead of sending the whole Wgt. division out at one time the sent only matches out. Everyone was assigned a match number, and when your match number was called you were to report to the holding area, and as soon as both competitors were there you were sent out to fight. The matches seemed to move quicker this way, and there were not as many empty rings. I was all done competing by noon which I thought was great considering I had been told from others that had gone previous years that they waited sometimes up to 6 hours before fighting. Overall I think It went good. Julie "Pain is weakness leaving the body." --The Marines ------------------------------ From: Julie Jezek Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:09:35 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Games to Play In my school we often play "Flag Taekwondo" all you need are two old white belt, and some students who like to run around. Cut the old white belts in to several pieces, we normally use two belts and cut each in three pieces, the students then have to slip one end of the pieces of belts in between their belt and their uniform, each player has to do this with three pieces, normally one in back and one on each side. The object of the game is to get the other persons pieces of belts, and to keep your own. We normally put a time limit to the matches. Another good game. Line up the students in to two lines facing each other, about 4 to 5 feet apart. Then send one student to the end of lines and blind fold him/her. Then chose one student who will attack the one blind folded. The blind folded one will then have to walk between the lines, and try to figure out who is going to attack, and how to defent the attack. Remember to tell the students not to hurt each other it can get out of control. Julie "Running won't kill you. You'll pass out first." --The Marines ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: more videoclips More videoclips are now available at our website. ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang HookDef.mov, KickDef.mov, Knife1.mov, Punch.mov, and PunchDef.mov are from Hapkido Master Geoff Booth. There is also a short clip of a TaekKyon match, TaekKyon.mov (also available as a zipped file). Ray Terry ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #368 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.