From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #394 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 12 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 394 In this issue: Re: the_dojang: Kukkiwon schedule? the_dojang: Re: clean=beautiful, natural=perfect the_dojang: Re: Nunchaku forms Re: the_dojang: Nunchaku forms the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #393 Re: the_dojang: TKD styles the_dojang: History lesson the_dojang: request the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #392 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #393 Re: the_dojang: request the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:38:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Kukkiwon schedule? > Does anyone know how to find out what is on the schedule at the Kukkiwon > for any particular set of days? I have been to Seoul a number of times, > and on a couple of visits I had time to drop by the kukkiwon to have a > look at it. One time I was lucky enough to be able to watch a local > public school tournament taking place. I am heading back to Korea at > the end of this month for a couple of weeks just to vacation, and would > like to know if there will be anything going on that would be good to > see while I am there. (I will be in Seoul from Sept 1 through Sept 9 in > case anyone on the list can help!) Jack, Try this address to see if it is still good. wtf@unitel.co.kr Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:07:16 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: clean=beautiful, natural=perfect From: Danny Abramovitch >>> > "If it's clean, it is beautiful, and If it's natural, it is perfect" My > instructor wants me to explain the statement, with regards to both everday > life, and tkd training, (mentally and physically). I'm in a cynical mood these days, so take that as a preface. <<< I'm a programmer, and therefore an eternal optimist ("it'll work the first time, no problem"), so I'll provide a different perspective...8?) >>> My thoughts on this are that it sounds nice but it is false. I can think of many clean used car salesmen. Furthermore, whenever there is a suspect in court charged with some hienous crime, they always have them cleaned up really nice. So, counterexamples to the first part exist and one cannot make it a global statement. <<< I prefer to think of 'clean' in this context as describing technique, in terms of no efficiency: it's powerful, effective, and has no wasted energy. Given that definition, if one can perform something (form, break, one-step, sparring combo, speech, car wash) 'cleanly', then it's a thing of beauty... >>> As for the second part, I guess it depends on the what the meaning of the word perfect is. (Cue the Clinton-speak.) However, in life, what is natural is not necessarily benign. Sharks are natural, as are crocodiles, pirannas, hot viruses, high infant mortality, many posions, UV radiation, etc. ("Have that hemlock seasoned beef, dear.") Perhaps something natural is a perfect killer. I guess that is a true statement. However, the implication of the statement (what I read) is that natural=good, and this is false. <<< Again, I define 'natural' in this context as 'without artificial embellishment'. I've seen references to sharks as 'the perfect predator'. Agreed, not all naturally occurring things are good, but they can still be 'perfect' in terms of what they're intended to do. Again, it seems to go to efficiency, no wasted effort, accomplishment of some task quickly and without thought. I was at the San Diego zoo a few months ago, and watched some monkeys swing around on a structure. They would sit on a 'branch', then suddenly start swinging their 50-70(?) pound bodies around the structure, alighting perfectly on a two inch wide 'branch', with no hesitation. Perfectly balanced, perfectly natural. >>> As for natural being the best thing in TKD training: I don't think so. The first time you started training, you had natural reactions to someone swinging at you. (Duck, cover, run, hide, get hit, etc.) You probably had to do some level of work to overcome those natural tendancies to get to a superior tendancy. I can't imagine that the natural reaction is perfect. I *can* imagine that the most efficient motion is perfect, that is, reducing your TKD moves to the most biomechanically efficient techniques is probably what you should do to approach perfection. However, that is efficient, not natural. <<< Obviously, I think efficiency is a big part of nature. When a big cat locks onto its prey, there's not a lot of wasted energy. I also take tai chi, and my instructor in that style often talks about how humans start out life behaving naturally, but wind up assuming most unnatural postures (breathing, reaction to stress, etc.). For example, when a cat is startled, it sinks and, while not particularly tense, is alert and ready for fight/flight. Many humans, on the other hand (well, at least me), tend to rise up in fright, offsetting our balance, in other words, in no position to _efficiently_ deal with the surprise. Perhaps the applicability of "is natural, is perfect" is that through dedicated training, techniques are ingrained to the point that they are efficient and _seem_ like natural reactions to stress... Probably all stretches, but hey, worth a shot...8?) Great food for thought... Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX (ATA) ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:11:44 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Nunchaku forms >>> I realize that traditional teakwondo doesn't include weapons; however, I am interested in finding any forms that include the nunchaku. I've been unable to find any such forms on the web, so do any of you know of any references that contain details of nunchaku forms? Thanks for you time, Kevin W. Tibbs <<< In the ATA/STF/WTTU organizations, there are forms for single and double Ssahng Jeol Bong. These are taught through seminars or through ATA/STF/WTTU schools. There is an accompanying videotape (at least for the single SJB), and the form (the single one, at least) is kind of fun. Not exactly what you were looking for, but hopefully some help. Check out http://www.taekwondousa.com for details about the ATA and the supplemental training...Best of luck in your search... Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Nunchaku forms >I realize that traditional teakwondo doesn't include weapons; however, I am >interested in finding any forms that include the nunchaku. I've been unable to >find any such forms on the web, so do any of you know of any references that >contain details of nunchaku forms? Kevin, You might check out Fumio Demura's two books on the Nunchaku. I seem to recall that it has 'kata' in it. Also do a search on Nunchaku via a search engine like aj.com and you'll get a number of interesting hits. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Aaron Harmon" Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:31:23 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #393 > >> "If it's clean, it is beautiful, and If it's natural, it is perfect" My >> instructor wants me to explain the statement, with regards to both everday >> life, and tkd training, (mentally and physically). Maybe if you look at the "it" as meaning technique or action of any kind. If technique is clean (efficient?) it is beautiful, if technique is natural it is perfect. So perhaps the most perfect and beautiful way to execute technique (or any action) is in a clean and natural manner. $.02 worth Aaron Harmon If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change your attitude. Don't complain." - Maya Angelou ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:44:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: TKD styles > I'm a practicioner of Tae kwon do. I understand that there are different > styles. Can anyone list all the styles and what makes them distinctive them > from the rest of the other styles? No one could list all the styles. There are just toooo many of them... In general, think of the styles of TKD as a continuum from Karate-do to Olympic Style TKD. Those on the Karate-do end are like the Tangsudo/Kongsudo/ Taesudo of the late 40s to late 50s. Those on the Olympic Style TKD end are like the competition focus only schools, no forms, minimal self-defense, all tournament sparring. Throw in Hoshinsul, weapons, and other influences and you have thousands of flavors of TKD. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Ray Terry" Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:08:18 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: History lesson Forwarding, from Master Silz. Ray Terry rterry@best.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------- 11 August 1999 Dear USTU Club Owner, Re: USTU History Book Project For the last twenty-five years the USTU has striven to reach the goal of bringing American taekwondo-in ("taekwondists") to the Olympics. This year, primarily due to the efforts of President Lee and Executive Director Jay Warwick, the U.S. Olympic Committee designated the USTU as one of their Olympic Sports Organizations. This means, next year, our athletes will contest at the 2000 Olympic Games in Sydney, Australia, where taekwondo will be a Full Medal Sport. The history of this progress is a rich, exciting and inspirational story that I have been assigned to research and compile into a book to be published in the fall of next year. This is not one man's story, nor is it merely a story about our political leaders. It is also not only a story about our elite athletes. This is our story - the story of every American who has, in any way, been involved in the "Taekwondo Movement" over the last two-and-a-half decades. For this book to be as much of a success as it can be, your contributions, photographs, suggestions and assistance are absolutely essential. Please send me any photographs that you feel have historic significance; I guarantee their safe return when publication of the book is completed. Also, please send any stories or anecdotes that you believe may be interesting to others about the development of Olympic Taekwondo in America. As I shall be working closely with President Lee on this project, please address these items to my attention at his office: U.S. Taekwondo Center 1316 N. Academy Blvd. Colorado Springs, Colorado 80909 Please contribute, and ask others to contribute as well. You may soon see one of your photographs, or read one of your stories, memorialized forever in our Union's first history book. Yours in taekwondo, Master Steven E. Silz, Project Historian ------------------------------ From: "Joey Stinson" Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:09:37 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: request I am looking for a picture of two men, first a picture of Won, Kuk Lee, founder of Chung Do Kwan. Second a picture of Ji, Jae Sun, founder of Sun Moo Kwan Hapkido. If anyone has, or as seen any of these floating around could you be so kind as to contact me. Thanks Joey Stinson hapkido@scrtc.com ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:53:00 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #392 the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > > Does anyone else reading this list have dealings with the ITF and the GTF > and comments on either? > Explain a little more about GTF. I never heard of this yet. Donna - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:04:11 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #393 the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > > Jason, if I understand your everyday life question correctly, I would > think the 5 tenents of Black Belt -TKD might work: Courtesy, Integrity, > Perseverance, Self Control, Indomitable Spirit. I wrote an article on > Courtesy for for a school newsletter and probably have a draft of > one on integrity. If this might help I will tell you more about it. > Lorraine I got to ask this. Is the tenet "humility" a addition or a deletion? I see a lot of you do not list this as a tenet of tkd. I feel this is a important tenet and it irritates me to all heck when I do not see it listed. It is in mine. I try to use this a lot. Sometimes I fail, but someone reminds me of humility somewhere along the line. It keeps me from getting stuck up and getting a case of high horsedness. Donna - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: request > I am looking for a picture of two men, first a picture of Won, Kuk Lee, > founder of Chung Do Kwan. Second a picture of Ji, Jae Sun, founder of Sun > Moo Kwan Hapkido. If anyone has, or as seen any of these floating around > could you be so kind as to contact me. I think you mean JI Han-jae. For a quick look, go to http://www.martialartsresource.com, then the korean side, then click on the Sin Moo Hapkido logo. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #394 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.