From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 17 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 402 In this issue: the_dojang: Belt Fees the_dojang: RE:Tradition, Generations, and that kind of stuff... the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #383 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #401 Re: the_dojang: Belt Fees the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #401 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #401 the_dojang: Chat Room Suggestions the_dojang: tradition ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Ashworth Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:49:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Belt Fees I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is $50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? Just geting started. Ken ------------------------------ From: Greg Giddins Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:21:51 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Tradition, Generations, and that kind of stuff... >Interesting, the definition was cited but appeared to be subsequently ignored;>) "...from generation to generation..." implies at least 2, and probably 3 or more generations: at 20 years each, that's 40-60 years of a virtually unchanged m.a. system to minimally qualify as having "tradition".< Scott, now where did you get 20 years is a generation? {:-, If you're all gonna play with lexical definitions , you may as well get them all out there. Generation=20 years isn't really accurate. If you use the human biological "generarion" it is about 33 years (1/3 of a century), but that doesnt fit our situation. (GENERATION: 4. A SINGLE STEP OR STAGE IN THE SUCCESION OF NATURAL DESCENT ; a rank or remove in genealogy. Hence: The body of those who are of the same genealogical rank or remove from an ancestor; the mass of beings living at one period; also, the average lifetime of man, ***OR THE ORDINARY PERIOD OF TIME AT WHICH ONE RANK FOLLOWS ANOTHER***, or father is succeeded by child, usually assumed to be one third of a century; an age.) Especially for something like physical training. Some of the GM's who helped invent TKD taught their art to the next generation fairly soon after creation. They didn't have to wait 20 years to pass it on. Then these teachers could have taught the next "generation" over the next few years, then the next, and so on, and none of these would have taken 20 years each to pass down, and a master would not have to wait for 20 years to train the next "generation". In a case like this generation doesnt mean father to son, although some of that certainly happened, but I would think it means master to student. Some of the TKD kwans claim quite a few iterations of "passing down the art" in the last 50 years. And rightly so. And I think each of these constitutes a generation in the context we are discussing. Although I am not a supporter of the phrase "Traditional TKD" with the connotations many try to apply to it these days, I do think that there are some Kwans that are passing down some traditions. And some that even claim to be passing down the EXACT art that was developed by their GM 50 years ago. And I need to give them credit for that. These are the "traditional" tkd schools that I hear about and don't snicker about. But it's the schools that try to say they are passing down a traditional art from 1500 years ago (yes, my dear Tang Soo Do included) that make most of us scoff. I think if the Kwan has made a genuine and sucessful attempt at preserving the original philosophy, technique and teaching methods of their art for a "few" "generations" (in the sense of master to student who becomes master to student who becomes master...) they should be able to lay claim to the word traditional. As I see it the GM is "creating" a tradition (sounds funny, but give it a moment of thought), the next master down is "learning and passing down" the tradition. Hmmm. Still thinking all this through, thanks for listening to my brainstorming! :-) Greg Giddins ggiddins@corp.webb.net "Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams." Mary Ellen Kelly ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:59:11 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #383 In a message dated 8/5/99 5:17:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << However, taekwondo is no more 'Korean karate' than karate is 'Japanese kung fu'. Each nation culturally patterns the art it receives and makes it its own. Taekwondo is unique to Korea, and it is developing vigorously at this time. We may correctly describe quite recent developments such as Choi Kwang Do and Yun Jung Do as forms of taekwondo. This, then, is the true history of taekwondo! ------------------------------ >> If so, then what shall one consider taekyeon, hwarangdo, or subak? These predate Mr. Funakoshi by many centuries, no? SESilz ------------------------------ From: 4karate@bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:59:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #401 "The first martial arts weapon being described in the Bible, the jaw bone of an ass. (Different jaw bone than Master Hancock uses..;" HEY!!! For some reason......I think there was an insult hidden in there!!???!!! :-P LOL John Hancock ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Belt Fees > I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first > belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are > classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received > an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is > $50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? Costs will vary greatly from city to city and country to country. But I would say that is in the ball park for larger US cities. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: 4karate@bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:06:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #401 "But like the 'My art is better than yours' debate, surly the term traditional is subjective and will mean something different to every ART proclaiming it in the title." Chris McKenna, GTF, Scotland, UK Aye Laddie! Or ya can bend over, lift up yur kilt `nd issue flaming balls o` gas aen yur enemy's direction! LOL Just having some fun. :-D John Hancock ------------------------------ From: 4karate@bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:11:36 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #401 "Greg Giddins ggiddins@corp.webb.net "Natives who beat drums to drive off evil spirits are objects of scorn to smart Americans who blow horns to break up traffic jams." Mary Ellen Kelly" A Rabbi was talking to a Medicine Man - "But can your God make rain?" said the Medicine Man. To which the Rabbi replied, "Of course he can make rain. But stop calling him 'MY' God....he's 'YOUR' God too!" To wit the Indian rebutted, "Don't give him to us! We've got enough trouble with our own God!" John Hancock ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:27:30 CDT Subject: the_dojang: Chat Room Suggestions Greetings - I have read with interest about the chat room. While I haven't participated in the chat rooms I would like to make a few suggestions. Some of you may remember that I used to post to this forum quite regularly and over time I have kept a log of some of the more popular topics that would work well in a chat room setting. Perhaps someone with experience in the areas could volunteer to be the lead moderator. So I offer you the following topics and welcome additional topics and perhaps others could email Ray so that he could put them in some type of priority order and even assign dates to them so people could plan ahead if the topic was of interest. So here goes. Hosting a local tournament (how, where to get medals/trophies,etc), Injuries - and how individuals healed, shared experiences, shared pain Nutritional supplements - what works, what doesn't, legal/not legal, Plyometric Training, Black Belt/Color Belt testing fees and how often to test, ADD/ADHD, Changes in curriculums and training now that school is back, Instructors night (sharing problems, sharing commonalities), Historian Night (sharing thoughts, answering the curious-minded), Safety Equipment (what works, what doesn't, companies, prices),,, Teaching children separately and in mixed classes, Cross training, Sport specific training, Others??????? JP _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: tradition Ok folks... Time to quickly wrap up the thread on traditional Korean martial arts. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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