From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #404 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 18 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 404 In this issue: the_dojang: . the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #390 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #403 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #403 the_dojang: private the_dojang: Banned in the USA the_dojang: Re: DD 403 titled: "In Good Company" the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 Re: the_dojang: prices the_dojang: Ji do kwan/ch'idokwan the_dojang: Re: Traditions and Traditional the_dojang: Re: Belt Fees the_dojang: Re: Being Banned the_dojang: note taking during self defense seminars (long) the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #396 the_dojang: Re: welcome back the_dojang: Re: Fees the_dojang: Re: V6 #402: generations the_dojang: Re: V6 #402: test fees the_dojang: Re: Belt Fees (disclosed) the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 - Chatter - 'n' fees the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:30:56 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #390 In a message dated 8/11/99 8:51:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << he 14th Executive Board meeting of the WTF on June 1 approved the special > detailed rules for the operation of the 2000 Sydney Olympic Taekwondo Games. > The rules provide that a sudden death system should be applied to any > extended match in case of a draw after 3 rounds of contest: in an extended > round of 3 minutes, any Deukjom (point scoring) or Gamjeom (point deduction) > should decide the winner of a match. Accordingly, in the Olympics, the > extended round will come to an end when any of the contenders either scores a > point or suffers a penalty of point deduction. However, these special rules > will not apply to any competitions other than in the Olympics. Besides, > unlike the ordinary competitions where there were two bronze medalists, only > one bronze medal will be allowed in Olympics to be given to the final > winner of repechage matches. >> Dear Reader, I attended the WTF's Joint Technical Committe Meeting in Edmonton this past June, in conjunction with the World Championship. These concepts were proposed and discussed. They were NOT, at that time, made final, however. Master SE Silz ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:37:16 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #403 > From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:18:57 +0200 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Belt Fees > > >Ken: I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first > >belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are > >classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received > >an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is > >$50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? > > I don't know what's normal in the US (if anything is ......), but I would say > that both the classes and the testing fee seems very expensive - probably > twice what you should be paying. > Instructors will charge whatever they need to stay in business. There is no fixed guideline for how much martial arts classes cost. You can expect to pay more in a big city as opposed to a small town because of higher rents. How much more? Who knows? ------------------------------ From: "Pfeifer, Steven" Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:02:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #403 >> From: CBAUGHN@aol.com >> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:35:54 EDT >> Subject: the_dojang: Re: In Good Company >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> Just thought I'd let you know that we've joined the >> elite company of "Those >> Who've Been Banned From TKD-Net." >> >> Anyone up for a reunion/party? >> >> Sally >> CBAUGHN@aol.com >> >> ------------------------------ Sally: Care to enlighten us further? (or private email is OK too). Did it have something to do with that AAU/Korean Master thing? Steve ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: private > >> Just thought I'd let you know that we've joined the > >> elite company of "Those Who've Been Banned From TKD-Net." > >> > >> Anyone up for a reunion/party? > >> ------------------------------ > > Care to enlighten us further? (or private email is OK too). Please continue this discussion via private email only. Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: 4karate@bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:20:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Banned in the USA " Just thought I'd let you know that we've joined the elite company of "Those Who've Been Banned From TKD-Net." Anyone up for a reunion/party?" Sally Hi Sally, welcome to the Glenn Usagi Defamation League. LOL. Always happy to get a new member (smirk). Yeah....sounds good to me. How about making that the TOPIC of the next Friday chat? (OK Ray. Don't have me vaporized. I'm just foolin' around). John ------------------------------ From: "Bradley G. Smith" Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:42:16 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: DD 403 titled: "In Good Company" Dear Sally, Bradley Smith here, Your post read, in part, [Hi Everyone, [ [Just thought I'd let you know that we've joined the elite company of "Those [Who've Been Banned From TKD-Net." [ [Anyone up for a reunion/party? What the heck were you banned from TKD Net for? Enlighten me so I'll better know who I'm dealing with there. I subscribe to both forums. Why would anyone not enjoy your participation? Best regards, Bradley Smith ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:18:32 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > From: Ken Ashworth > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:49:07 -0500 > Subject: the_dojang: Belt Fees > > I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first > belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are > classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received > an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is > $50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? > It is about the average. Mine at that rank is $40.00. I test for brown in Dec. It will be $60.00 then. When you test for black is when you choke. It runs from $300.00 to $500.00. Donna - ---- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: prices > > classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received > > an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is > > $50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? > > It is about the average. Mine at that rank is $40.00. I test for brown in Dec. > It will be $60.00 then. When you test for black is when you choke. It runs > from $300.00 to $500.00. Or more... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: burdickd Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:04:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Ji do kwan/ch'idokwan Mr. Silz wrote: >To Whom it May interest: >For the record: >Master Chun, Sang Sup, my "great-grandmaster" founded the Ji Do Kwan, >literally, Wisdom Way Organization. Nothing to do with whatever the >Ch'i do kwan may be, if anything other than a misspelling or misnomer. >Sincerely, >SESilz Since I'm the one who uses Ch'idokwan, and since I myself am descended from that same line of instruction, I went right to the dictionary to check, and came to the conclusion that I was the one in error. Sorry folks! Let me apologize to everyone who read my history for using "ch'i" for Wisdom or intellect. Right on page 1631 of the Minsung Essence dictionary, it shows it should be "chi," not "ch'i." On the other hand, the character that is "ch" or "j" is romanized in McCune Reischauer system as a "ch" at the start of the word, and as a "j" when found between two vowels. That's why I wrote it with "ch." What romanization system are you using? Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 01:03:29 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Traditions and Traditional Jamaica wrote: << Nothing is lost, we just adapt for survival. >> Well put. Glad to have you back, Jamaica. Will you be staying for awhile? Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 01:03:51 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Belt Fees Ken wrote: << I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is $50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? >> Anders wrote: << I don't know what's normal in the US (if anything is ......), but I would say that both the classes and the testing fee seems very expensive - probably twice what you should be paying. >> Actually, the quoted fees are not outof line, depending on where you are. Here in Ohio, depending on your location in-town or suburb, small town, etc., you could pay monthly from $45 to $100 or more. The tuition would include from 2 to 7 days training, from 1 hour to 4 hours per day. And testing would be an additional $35-$75 per belt up to 1st Dan, which could be anywhere from $200 to $500 (with the price rising as you go thru the Dan ranks). Obviously, the prices are everywhere on the scale. The main point to consider is that if you aren't happy with the instruction you're getting, $45 per month is too much; while if you're very happy with your school and instructors, $100 isn't too much (assuming you can afford to pay it). Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 01:03:57 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Being Banned Yesterday, I posted to the digest about being banned from a certain list. In considering my action, it was quite petty of me to ask about a reunion/party. I apologize for subjecting the list to such petty behavior. Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Laura Kamienski" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 01:08:23 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: note taking during self defense seminars (long) Hello All, I would like to share my experience with a self-defense course for women I recently enrolled in. I’ve learned some extremely valuable lessons about choosing courses that I think may be of use to others. I would like to point out that this post is a description of my own experience and opinions. I do not intend to entertain any flames from those who have had different experiences with similar courses. Since this is a public forum, I’ve decided that in order to save possible embarrassment to anyone involved in the specific course described, I have replaced the course ’s proper name with “WSDC” (short for Women’s Self Defense Course for lack of a more imaginative name) from here on. If anyone would like details about the particular course I took, please e-mail me privately. With that said… For those of you who have never read any of my posts, I hold a first degree black belt in TKD, teach Aerobic Kickboxing, am an assistant TKD instructor at my dojang and am successfully starting to teach women’s self defense seminars on a volunteer basis in my community. I thought taking a full contact padded attacker course for women would enhance all of my skills and my ability to teach as well. After spending some time seeking out a course within driving distance from my home I was excited to learn about “WSDC”. I live in Pennsylvania and the course would entail a four-hour drive, on Sunday afternoons. Even though I didn’t relish the long drives, it was the closest available course I found, and was doable. I was simply delighted to have finally found a course. It is a rather expensive program ($500.00 for 5 – four hour sessions) so I pre-registered to receive the advance payment discount and waited anxiously to attend my first class. I was very excited and had lots of discussions with women in my dojang, my instructor, friends, family and my own students. I thought this was going to be great. What I found was very strange. It seems that “WSDC” has a policy against students taking notes during classes. This policy was not disclosed in any of the advance materials I received or during any of the telephone discussions I had with the representative of the program. It never occurred to me to ask whether I would be permitted to take notes during an instructional course. It occurs to me now that I should have. I found it puzzling and very unsettling that we are asked not to take notes during the lecture and discussion portions of the course. We were also not given adequate time to take notes in between sessions. The head instructor told us that the reason for asking us not to take notes is that she finds note taking to be a distraction while she is speaking and that she feels it inhibits participation in the course. No other explanations were given during the first day of class. After being asked not to take notes I closed my notebook in astonishment but continued to listen to the information being presented. After the first lecture and discussion period we were given a 2 or 3 minute break during which I hurriedly tried to take some notes about some points I considered worth remembering. The head instructor began the next session of class by scolding me for doing so. She did this by stating that she had previously requested that I not take notes and asked that I did not continue to do so. This puzzled me even more as I refrained from note taking while she was speaking as requested. She had not started speaking again, yet scolded me. I am ashamed to say that I apologized to her at that time. I wish I had spoken up then. Later when I left the class and was asked by friends and family what I thought about it, the first thing that came to mind was how creepy it felt that we were not permitted to take notes. Also that, while I stepped away from my notebook to grab some water, my pen was removed from my belongings by a “WSDC” staff member on two separate occasions. I would like to point out that the entire program was being video taped for purposes of improving the course and the assistant instructor took notes on everything that was said by participants so to better individualize the classes. For the record, I am in full agreement with the value of these practices. The staff did state that the videotape and notes were to be kept confidential and were for “WSDC” use only. After long hard consideration, I decided that I needed to raise this issue with the instructors. I decided that doing so before attending the next class would be the professional and appropriate thing to do. I raised the issue by telephone and e-mail. First, I expressed my disagreement with the idea that note taking inhibits the learning process as was proposed by the instructor. I've never heard of an educator, in any case, or under any circumstances forbidding or even discouraging students from taking notes. In fact, it has been my understanding that note taking is a valuable learning tool and an aid in the process. I have never been in a classroom or instructional setting where I haven’t found note taking to be useful and advantageous. It has always been a way for me to translate information and ideas from the instructor into my own words. Writing something down is also a great way to help promote retention. I know that if I had not had the opportunity to take notes during other courses I’ve taken over my lifetime, many of the ideas and much of the information which was presented would have been lost to me forever. Second, I asserted that whether or not our taking notes is a distraction to the instructor is irrelevant. Since students pay $25.00 an hour - per person for this instruction, it is their right to receive and understand the information presented. If one of the methods chosen to do so includes taking notes, it is the instructors’ responsibility to learn to get beyond such a distraction. I know that when I train clients and receive these kinds of fees, I feel like I would be doing them a great disservice by asking them not to engage in any kind of reasonable behavior which may assist in their development. The first thing my TKD instructor tells his white belts is to buy a notebook and take notes during breaks, discussions or after class. I’ ve known him on many occasions to stay with students, including myself, after class to re-discuss a point or two for the specific purpose of jotting down notes. Next, I pointed out that I found it creepy and infuriating that I, was not only scolded for taking notes, but then had my pen (which was personal property in my case) removed from my other possessions while I wasn’t looking. I also pointed out that I was very disappointed in myself for apologizing for taking notes as I did. I had the right to take notes or at least not to be scolded for doing so. If there is a legitimate reason for not taking notes during certain lecture and/or discussion times, then there should be adequate time to catch up during longer break periods. To this point in time, I had been given no legitimate reason for not taking notes nor had I been given ample time during the breaks to do so. Finally, I stated that I found this policy to be extremely hypocritical in light of the class being video taped and staff members taking notes while the participants were speaking. Just as the instructor might find students taking notes distracting for whatever reason, we may (or may not, as I agree with this practice) find the video camera or the assistant instructor’s note taking distracting. This did not seem to be a consideration. It was also annoying that we were told to save questions for the end of a four-hour day without access to write them down in the interim. I’m sure many questions remained unanswered simply because they had been forgotten. I did learn during my telephone discussions with the head instructor that she feels that “WSDC” has spent a lot of time and energy in developing this program and there was some concern about others using the information presented for teaching other courses. First on this issue, I suggested, that if this is a genuine concern, that they consider including a non-compete clause in their enrollment agreement. This is industry standard. Second, I find it counter-productive to create an atmosphere, which is not conducive to learning, by trying to somehow copyright knowledge. If anyone wanted to use the information presented in this course they might do so whether or not they were permitted to take notes. You can copyright a program name and its literature but you simply cannot copyright information. To prevent students from taking advantage of a legitimate learning tool, for whatever reason, is to rob them of something they paid for with their tuition. Finally on this point, I think that any legitimate women’s self defense course would welcome the compliment of other instructors using sound, valuable ideas and tools to help other women who may not have access to their program. I don’t see that aspiring to create a monopoly on the topic of women’s self defense serves anyone. This way of thinking can only serve bank accounts of programs like “WSDC”. I would like to have resolved this matter in a way that was beneficial to both “WSDC” and myself. I found the first day of the course and the information presented to be of some value, but I feel that I would not have gained as much as I could have from this course due to the note taking policy. Though I preferred to continue “WSDC” with some sort of compromise, I was considering asking for a refund if this was not a negotiable policy. What I eventually was told was that although this policy was not stated anywhere in the literature describing the course or in its enrollment agreements etc., it was indeed a policy and was not negotiable. No satisfactory explanation or solution was offered. Since I would not have enrolled in this, or any, course had I been aware of a policy against taking notes, I asked for a full refund. Some lessons I’ve learned from my experience with “WSDC”: 1. Don’t pay any fees in advance for something you only have subjective or superficial information about. 2. Don’t assume anything about any course (like whether you will be permitted to take notes for example). Ask if there is a written list of policies and procedures before agreeing to enroll. Ask if there are any unwritten or unusual policies or requests to adhere to while taking the course. 3. Meet your instructor(s) ahead of time. Take time to get to know him/her a little bit before enrolling in a course. Do this even if it means and extra eight hour trip. Respecting your instructor and his/her take on issues is absolutely necessary to get the most out of a course. “WSDC” was not willing to compromise or even discuss the possibility of compromise on this issue. I decided that if “WSDC” would be unwilling to grant me a full refund I would continue to attend under protest of the note taking policy. Ultimately I was ordered by the head instructor not to attend any more classes and that she would see to my full refund – even if she had to pay part of it out of her own pocket. She seemed surprised by the whole thing. She claimed that the issue of taking notes never came up before. I asked her if perhaps this might be because many of the women who take courses like this one weren’t generally the sort of people to make any waves whether they agreed with a request/policy or not. I don’t dismiss the possibility that some of the women who take this course simply don’t find the issue important enough to question. However, I think if “WSDC” students are asked to refrain from note taking in the beginning of the program, it is more likely that no one ever had the gumption to speak up before. Women who come to courses like this one are seeking instruction to become assertive. Often they don’t yet have the skills to be assertive, let alone to do so with a self-defense instructor. Finally, I would just like say that while it may seem trivial to some that I took such issue with this policy I don’t think I had a choice. As a teacher, I strive for the highest standards for my students. It is my firm conviction that part of the educational process includes not only the freedom to take notes but the encouragement to do so. I could not with good conscience support a course with such an inane policy. I found the whole experience to be sadly disappointing. Laura Kamienski 1st Dan, Chin Mu Kwan - Tae Kwon Do lkamiens@ptd.net http://home.switchboard.com/LKamienski ____________________________________________________ "The destination is not the purpose of a journey; death is not the purpose of life." -Thich Nhat Hanh ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 01:40:00 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #396 In a message dated 8/13/99 5:54:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << But it seems when most think of Traditional TKD they envision a Karate-do like art. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >> Dear Ray, But that is only half the circle, sir. What people consider to be "Karate-do Like" has already been influenced by those supposedly mysterious ancient Korean systems. Remember: As most fair historians now concede (yes, even Japanese ones), many aspects of Japanese culture came originally from Korea. In fact, human genome research shows that (other than the Ainu) rather than descending from Heaven like the Emperor's clan was alleged to have done, much of the Japanese population has descended from a Korean stock! But you knew that already, didn't you? SESilz ------------------------------ From: dequayle@olypen.com Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:46:21 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: welcome back Welcome back to Jamaica! Sorry to hear about your kidney stones--did you get to keep them in a jar?!! ;-P I always enjoy your posts that enliven the dojang-digest discussions and make us think. Darlene Port Hadlock, WA ------------------------------ From: dequayle@olypen.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:05:42 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Fees Ken, Your fees seem reasonable for a city school. I do TKD in a small town somewhat near Seattle. I pay $55 a month for two days a week, one to 1-1/2 hours per class. There are two other schools in the neighboring town, both with comparable prices (one is affiliated with my school), at least to my knowledge. I suppose if I wanted to drive 2 hours, I could also participate in extra sparring practice at the GM's dojang at no extra cost. Our testing fees start at $40, go up by $5 per test until 5th kup, then by $10 until 1st kup, then $350 for 1st dan. I have considered our fees to be fairly reasonable. In comparison, I pay $45 for a 1-1/2 hr weekly class for gymnastics and $20 a month for a one hour weekly class of beginning ballet for my kids. Darlene Port Hadlock, WA ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #402: generations >Scott, now where did you get 20 years is a generation? {:-, Well, 20 years (MOL) is what I had always been taught. Webster's Collegiate (I usually look such items up _before_ posting, serves me right;>) doesn't specify an interval in years, but def #2 refers to the time from the birth of 1 generation to the next. If you consider that to be the first born, then 20 years might be more typical than 33, but I won't argue the point (I don't think the digest traffic has been quite _that_ dead;>) I was posting in response to someone who quoted a lexical definition at the head of his article, and then appeared to disregard it. Your other points are valid, and well worth considering. I agree that this is somewhat subjective, and context sensitive, as well. I would probably consider a school that had taught from the same syllabus in substantially the same fashion for 50 years as traditional, but not by a lot. === Tang Soo! Scott ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #402: test fees Based on past threads on this forum, I would give you an absolutely concrete answer: it depends;>) Seriously, test fees seem to vary widely from school to school and organization to organization. Depending on how often you test (which in turn in part depends on how many gup rankings there are in your system) $50 could be considered reasonable. In the school I attend, gup test are $30, and there are 7 of them (assuming each is passed;>) Classes are $55 per month. While these figures are slightly less than what you pay, I don't believe that my instructor is required to pass as much of the fees on to his instructor as in some organizations. The organizational division of fees is one of the factors that result in varying fees. So is the scope of activities that are funded or sponsored by the organization (I know this is related;>) Cost of living in a particular area could be another factor. Ken Ashworth wrote: >I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first >belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are >classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received >an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is >$50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? === Scott ------------------------------ From: ATATKD@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:32:56 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Belt Fees (disclosed) In a message dated 8/17/99 6:09:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Ken: I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first >belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are >classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received >an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is >$50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? >> we tell all students before they sign the membership agreement that their monthly tutition doesn't covers rank testing fees. This way they cannot say down they line they were not told or they were mislead. Joe ATA - Long Island, NY ------------------------------ From: ATATKD@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:26:38 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 In a message dated 8/17/99 3:00:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is $50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? Just geting started. Ken >> In our school (an ATA School) that is about normal. Joe ATA - Long Island, NY ------------------------------ From: Chris McKenna Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:52:12 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 - Chatter - 'n' fees > John Hancock wrote----------------- >=20 > Aye Laddie! Or ya can bend over, lift up yur kilt `nd issue=20 > flaming balls o` > gas aen yur enemy's direction! >=20 What a great accent,:~) you surly must be Scottish yourself, or at = least be lucky enough to be descended from Scots! An accent even better than Mike Myers in 'the Spy Who etc etc.' Our association makes us pay about $35 dollars(=A320 - I'm doing = conversion tables in my head!), for a grading test, this stays the same until the black belt test which is =A3100 ($160). Now as far as I can tell, all = the coloured belt grading fee goes to the grading examiner. He only has to = buy a coloured belt every other grading (cause of stripes),and a certificate = that he probably buys by the hundred! I think that in most schools a = coloured belt grading fee is dependant on whatever the school or examiner seems = fit. The schools that have free examinations are lucky because they = obviously have no need of the extra income, or make enough money in other ways so = as they don't need it. The fee must then be a mix of much needed extra = revenue to run the school, pay hall fees, wages, and make a living for the = person running the school. I don't think you are paying too much if you are = able to train 5 nights a week in a purpose built dojang with all mod cons. Our monthly fees are smaller but we have only two classes a week in a large = hall that has none of the usual niceties enjoyed by a 'normal' = dojang.(punch/kick bags/aircon/wooden floors/mats/mirrors/flags/water dispensers/wall bars = - - you name it - we probably don't have it!) But I love TKD and we just = make do with what we do have (Concrete floor in a hall shared with a noisy = aerobics class - anyone who teaches at our school soon develops a powerfully = loud delivery).=20 Rambling on and on again... Chris Mckenna GTF=20 Scotland ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #404 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.