From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #406 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 18 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 406 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #404 the_dojang: New Information On Muscle-Bound the_dojang: Belt Fees the_dojang: tournaments & competitions the_dojang: Re: Doorknobs and roundhouses the_dojang: Re: Belt Fees the_dojang: Belt Fees the_dojang: WWF And Martial Arts the_dojang: Are you Successful? the_dojang: Re: Doorknobs and Injuries the_dojang: Dog Brothers the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Rogers Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:21:54 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #404 Laura Kamienski wrote: >>> I would like to share my experience with a self-defense course for women I recently enrolled in. I’ve learned some extremely valuable lessons about choosing courses that I think may be of use to others. [snippage] I did learn during my telephone discussions with the head instructor that she feels that “WSDC” has spent a lot of time and energy in developing this program and there was some concern about others using the information presented for teaching other courses. <<< I think that statement gets to the heart of the matter....8?) >>> Some lessons I’ve learned from my experience with “WSDC”: 1. Don’t pay any fees in advance for something you only have subjective or superficial information about. 2. Don’t assume anything about any course (like whether you will be permitted to take notes for example). Ask if there is a written list of policies and procedures before agreeing to enroll. Ask if there are any unwritten or unusual policies or requests to adhere to while taking the course. 3. Meet your instructor(s) ahead of time. Take time to get to know him/her a little bit before enrolling in a course. Do this even if it means and extra eight hour trip. Respecting your instructor and his/her take on issues is absolutely necessary to get the most out of a course. <<< Sometimes this simply isn't possible. I signed up to take a seminar with a fairly notable Chen tai chi master. It was basically a 'you pays your money, you takes your chances' kind of thing, which fortunately turned out very well. In your case, given the price of the seminar, it's really too bad that the instructors' motives seemed to be more business and procedure than actual instruction.... BTW, how was the first days worth of instruction? Did it seem like the material would be worthwhile? Sorry you had such a negative experience. Given the effort that you expended, and the seriousness with which you approached the seminar, that surely must've been a big letdown...8?( >>> "The destination is not the purpose of a journey; death is not the purpose of life." -Thich Nhat Hanh <<< Love this tag line...! Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX (ATA) ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:50:30 CDT Subject: the_dojang: New Information On Muscle-Bound I like to review old threads and see if there is any new information up about topics. One thread was when I asked for training tips for muscle-bound martial artists. And there were some great responses although one poster said he didn't believe in the term or that there is any such thing. I just came across a new article on being muscle-bound and it has a different slant to it than how I used to think about the term; so if you're interested... http://www.healthforlife.com/html/a7bound.html JP _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Laranda Williams Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:03:17 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Belt Fees I am also relatively new at TKD (3 months). I studied martial arts when I was a teen agree but this seem extremely different than I remember. I signed a 3 yr contract (that I negoited down to) $3500 with a school = in Northern VA/DC area. They change $50 for belt tests and there are 11 = before black belt. Then the black belt test fee is $500. I really wanted to = do TKD so I signed on (didn't really look at other schools). Now I notice = that classes are avail 6 times a week and most (after normal working hours) = are over crowded. It's hard to do a kicking combination without running = into someone else or a wall. IT seems like the major focus is on marketing and getting new contracts signed. Every piece of equipment or uniform required is a walking billboard. Is there room for all these students to train or they just counting on the members that will drop out after paying to refill those spaces? =20 So if the rate is $4.08 that is per student. but when there are 30 = students in a small space how much instruction or training can they actually = receive? and $4.08 times 30 students around 122 for that hour? just wondering... LA=09 << 5 hours per week =3D 20 hours per month, or a whopping $3.25/hr rate being charged. That is far below minimum wage. $50 for testing is in addition to bring that average up to $4.08/hr per quarter. Is that out = of line?=20 From: Don.Hahn@phs.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:30:38 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 >>From: Ken Ashworth Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:49:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Belt Fees I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received = an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is $50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? Just geting started. Ken =A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA= =B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,= =B8=B8, Those who mock their inferiors, have none.=20 - -Anonymous =20 ------------------------------ From: Laranda Williams Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:06:37 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: tournaments & competitions I am new to TKD in the DC/VA area. Does any one know how I can find = out about tournaments & competitions in the area? I would love to watch = some local events and maybe participate at some point in some beginner = entries. =A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA= =B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,=B8=B8,=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8=A4=BA=B0`=B0=BA=A4=F8,= =B8=B8, Those who mock their inferiors, have none.=20 - -Anonymous =20 ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:13:49 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Doorknobs and roundhouses \ From: Kim Jones \ \ Ouch... what's the likelihood of breaking a toe doing a left \ roundhouse/jump roundhouse combo to a doorknob? Seriously? *whimpers in \ pain* Some MORONS, whom shall remain nameless for the time being because \ I don't remember their names... WOULD NOT MOVE, and thus forced me to move \ up... and when I kick, I cover distance good, especially with jump kicks \ even though my aerial needs some working. Okay, now, if you see someone \ in the front line for a crowded room having to back up after every kick, \ and you see for a fact that they cover good distance, would you back up \ out of courtesy? I would. The following may sound harsh (I couldn't figure out how to lighten it up) but it is *not* meant as a flame. Kim just touched a bit of a nerve of mine in general. So, Kim, if any of this feels like an attack I apologize in advance. What I've learned (or had reinforced) is that you can't rely on other people to take responsibility for your needs. Isn't that why most of us are studying a MA, to take responsibility for our own self defense? However, in the experience you related, it doesn't sound like you took responsibility for your needs. You know that your kicks require room. It sounds like you knew that you didn't have enough space. Yet, instead of asking people to make room, or refusing to do the kick without enough space, it sounds like you didn't take steps to defend yourself. There is a saying at the dojang I attend, "If it hurts, don't do it," meaning that if you are injured and a technique is aggravating that injury, don't do it. That can be easily extended to, "If it's going to hurt, don't do it." I apply this, for example, when we're doing takedowns and I and my partner are close to a wall. I'm tall and I cover a lot of area when I go down. I tell my partner that I want to move away from the wall. If a partner were ever to refuse my request I would ask the instructor to switch me to another partner. You can blame the people that were taking up space, but I feel that that blame is misplaced. IMO it was your responsibility to ask them to move. BTW, I feel that "blame" is a word that shouldn't be used, but that's a completely different debate :) [snip] \ I can't join in because I was considerate for other people and smacked the \ hell out of my own foot for it. Consideration for other people should only go so far. IMO you should be the most important person to you. A danger to yourself should outweigh consideration for other people. Be considerate of yourself by asking them to move. You can be considerate of them by asking them to move politely. \ Any consolation or \ advice can be posted on the list or sent to me personally. \ \ *sticks foot in tub of hot water* I hope your toe heals quickly. My mother broke one of her toes just last week (a coffee table wouldn't get out of her way ;) My mother's doctor told her to wear solid shoes to protect her toe, and to inhibit her toe from flexing/moving while she walks. She went out and bought an inexpensive pair of hiking boots. She says that her toe is protected well and it hardly hurts at all while she walks. - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "One little smile can fill the room with sunshine." ------------------------------ From: Julie Jezek Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:20:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Belt Fees In my school I pay $50 a month and I can attend up to 12 classes a week, that is two classes every day for 6 days, testing ranges from $40 for a yellow belt to $350 for a probationary black belt. Your rate sound about normal. Julie Pangie@owc.net ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:40:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Belt Fees I teach 2 to 3 times a week for $55/mo. Gup tests are $35 each (all levels). BTW, my next rank test (unless they go up before I test again) will be a whopping $600! I have two young girls that will be eligible to test in the spring for a combined testing fee of $750. That seems a bit much to me for 9 & 10 year old little kids, IMO. For me it's a bit more understandable and most may think it reasonable. I don't think I want to pay that much for my girls and I'm the teacher! Jamacia, to answer your question, with the current dan testing fees, I may be ready to make a switch. Looking for a new student? I'm available... . ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:39:40 CDT Subject: the_dojang: WWF And Martial Arts Anybody watch WWF the other night that was held in Milwaukee, WI. There was a wrestler on that was doing side kicks all over the place and using a "Kendo" stick...whipping it at anybody in his way!!! Hmmm. Not sure that helps martial arts or not...But it was fun to watch. JP _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:11:27 CDT Subject: the_dojang: Are you Successful? Of course that's a term that means something different to everybody. But if an up and coming student came to you and told you they wanted to be just like you someday - And then they asked you what your recipe for success is, what would you tell them??? I'm sure it would be different for those that are sports oriented, traditional, spiritual, etc. But would you say it was a pinch of physical training, and a lot of spiritual awareness mixed with years of mental disicpline and a feeling of reward of giving to others. The realization of your own universal truth mixed with dedication and blended gently with sweat and tears. Or perhaps success means finally breaking even and paying your bills on time...or maybe even just being at peace with yourself... Thanks.. JP _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Jamaica Power" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:00:35 CDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Doorknobs and Injuries >>>). Any consolation or advice can be posted on the list or sent to me >>>personally. Kim Jones>>> First I'm sorry for you but I hear ya.. At least you have some dignity with your injury being it happened in a martial arts class. Now when I was your age I ran down the basement stairs and into the open door where 3 of my toes jammed under the door and got injured as you have.... Now I was just plain clumsy and in a hurry. No honor or excuse attached and no sympathy from anywhere. Take care...and heal _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Dog Brothers Forwarding. Ray Terry rterry@best.com - --------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Subject: Dog Brothers Autumnal Equinox Gathering of the Pack A HOWL OF GREETING TO ALL: Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts hereby cordially invites you to the first day of our second decade of "Real Contact Stickfighting" at our "Autumnal Equinox Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack" on Saturday, September 18th 1999 at 11:00AM at 4th St. and Ardmore in Hermosa Beach. The MAGIC WORDS: "No judges, no referees, no trophies. One rule only: Be Friends at the end of the day. This means our goal is that no one spends the night in the hospital and that everyone leaves with the IQ with which they came. No suing no one for no reason for nothing no how no way! Protect yourself at all times! Real Contact Stickfighting is Dangerous and only you are responsible for you. All copyright belongs to Dog Brothers Inc. And dear guest, please remember this means NO VIDEO CAMERAS!" Also, please note that the "no suing no one for no reason etc." language applies to those of you in the audience too. If a stick or a fight comes careening your way- get out of the way! As always, you may take photographs for personal, non-commercial use PROVIDED you give us a complete set of the ones you take. Our thanks to the those of you who actually follow through and do this. It is much appreciated! FIGHTERS MUST PRE-REGISTER, even if they have fought before. Go to the website, print the form and FILL OUT THE FORM OR YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO FIGHT. We have too much to do on Gathering day to have to deal with fighters signing up at the last minute as well. Get in touch with us for info by calling (310) 543-7521. All calls will be returned "collect". Remember that you may fight with weapons other than a stick if you can find someone willing to go against you. You and your opponent may agree to a "strike fight" wherein both agree to avoid grappling in order to emphasize striking skills. The knife fighting done as a warm-up will again allow for 2 versus 2 matches. Each Gathering is its own unique beast and this one promises to deliver. As I write this we are promised fighters from Canada, England, and Switzerland as well as from across the United States. Jim McGrath will be on drums once again. And it appears that we will be having our first "catfight"—a woman from Switzerland and one from the US. It appears that the staff is beginning to catch on and that there will be more staff fights. There may be a surprise or three. Top Dog and Salty Dog are reputed to be in fighting trim and I plan to be too. PARKING. People often express surprise at the fact that we get to do what we do in a public place. It has been a very good trick and there is more to it than meets the eye. The Gatherings have gotten fairly large (30-35 fighters and some 3-400 observers is typical) and so we need really ask everyone's cooperation on the subject of parking. Pretty please with a cherry on top! Therefore PLEASE park in the lots on Valley Drive, (which is one street west of Ardmore- cross the Greenbelt at 2nd or 8th Street) either at 4th street or 8th street or in the parking lot on 2d street just west of Pacific Coast Hwy or in the parking structure on the northeast corner of Ardmore and Pier Ave (approximately 12th street) and walk the ¼ mile along Ardmore to 4th street. Be aware that there is a driveway at the end of the gravel area on on the street where the Gathering is held that can easily be blocked and if it is blocked, parking enforcement will get called. Please be sure that your parking does not obstruct any driveways! This is not just a matter some parking tickets. (someone got hit with a $330 ticket for parking in the handicapped space at the Gathering park last time) Local dynamics are such that this can lead to the prevention of future Gatherings at this location and finding another location would be real hard. So please be considerate, arrive early, and park at the alternative locations and walk the last few blocks! SEE MAP on website(dogbrothers.com). As always, you would be wise to arrive with an empty bladder. "HIGHER CONSCIOUSNESS THROUGH HARDER CONTACT!" © Woof, Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny Guiding Force of the Dog Brothers President: Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts PS: Please help defray the cost of hosting this event.There will be T-shirts, videos, patches, etc. for sale so please bring money!!! See http://www.dogbrothers.com for more information. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #406 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.