From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #407 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thurs, 19 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 407 In this issue: the_dojang: Hapkido, Taekwondo in Oregon the_dojang: RE: Fees the_dojang: re: value of day one the_dojang: test fees the_dojang: Re: broken toe or principle? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #405 the_dojang: changing instructors the_dojang: Friday chat the_dojang: Secret recipe for success the_dojang: No flames, no hurt feelings the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #404 Re: the_dojang: RE: Fees the_dojang: Re: V6 #404: "WDSC" the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hapkido64@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:42:23 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido, Taekwondo in Oregon Hello all. Was wondering if any of you could refer me to a good Hapkido-Taekwondo school in the Aloha / Beaverton / Portland, Oregon area thanks Hapkido64@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Don.Hahn@phs.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:15:51 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Fees >>So if the rate is $4.08 that is per student. but when there are 30 = students in a small space how much instruction or training can they actually = receive? and $4.08 times 30 students around 122 for that hour? just wondering... LA=09 << What other professions charge $4.08/hr? I've been charged $250/hr + for attorneys, I've billed out at $150/hour (7 yrs ago)? Realize it is all a business and the real question is whether the training is worth your time (more important) and money. How much instruction? If you're talking TKD, you can generally have one instructor teach a large group without much decrease in quality of instruction. HKD generally requires each person to be taught separately due to differences in techniquese learned, level of experience, etc.. Our students get their $'s worth. BTW, the rate is $100/hour for private lesson, if you want. ------------------------------ From: "Laura Kamienski" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:35:20 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: re: value of day one From: Paul Rogers Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:21:54 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #404 >>BTW, how was the first days worth of instruction? Did it seem like the material >>would be worthwhile? In some ways I think that what was presented was of value for women who have had absolutely no other training and will have no other training in the future. I guess I'm saying that I think that something is better than nothing. But from an instructor's standpoint it wasn't worth $25.00 per hour. There were a couple of aspects which I found useful and will incorporate into my own classes. All and all it's not a course I recommend, note-taking aside. >>Sorry you had such a negative experience. Given the effort that you expended, and >>the seriousness with which you approached the seminar, that surely must've been a big >>letdown...8?( It was....but I'm finding other avenues now which I'm very excited about. Stay tuned... >>> "The destination is not the purpose of a journey; death is not the purpose of life." -Thich Nhat Hanh <<< >>Love this tag line...! :^) Thanks Laura lkamiens@ptd.net http://home.switchboard.com/LKamienski ____________________________________________________ "The destination is not the purpose of a journey; death is not the purpose of life." -Thich Nhat Hanh ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:57:47 EDT Subject: the_dojang: test fees It is about the average. Mine at that rank is $40.00. I test for brown in Dec. > It will be $60.00 then. When you test for black is when you choke. It runs > from $300.00 to $500.00. Or more...>>>>> funny - here i Tulsa new trend is NOT to charge test fees. But the ones who do CHARGE BIG test fees ------------------------------ From: tokay@netwurx.net Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:23:50 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: broken toe or principle? Kim, Your story reminds me of the only notable injury I've had in 4+ years of TKD training. I have to agree with the person who talked about taking responsibility for our own needs. A coupe years ago we were practicing forms in class, and this one person who was always very inconsiderate of others was in front of me. This person was usually very lazy in his technique, tried to "cheat" at sparring if he thought he could, and never would move to get out of someone else's way. Being tired of having to continually stop to get out of HIS way, I decided this one time I would just do my form and ignore where he was. Well, at the part of Taeguk Oh Jang where you do the side kick and back fist at the same time, this person was doing a long turn into some sort of block and knocked me over. I broke the metatarsal bone in my foot. Had to sit out for 5 weeks. Was a real drag at work (I do not have a strictly desk job). Was a real drag getting to the laundry machines three floors down from my apt. Thus I conclude I did the wrong thing. Hope your toe gets better and you don't kick anymore doorknobs. Sandy - -- tokay@netwurx.net http://www.netwurx.net/~tokay ICQ 39586040 ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:17:24 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #405 the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:48:49 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Dan test fees > > > With all this going around and it's good information on > > how different schools charge, if I was to pay $ 300 - $500 > > for my Dan test, then what am I getting besides a uniform > > and a certificate? To me, that's alittle steep. > > You get a uniform? Nope!! Just a belt. The fees get divided amoung the grandmaster and those who were on the testing board. I think half goes to the grandmaster and the rest get divided what is supposed to be equally to the others. I know it does not make sense, but that is the way with my do-chang and some others. We have to support it somehow I guess and I am not complaining. I just hope P and I do not get into a huge arguement when my time to test for that comes. He knows, I've told him. But it was that "ahuh" that comes when a husband lets it go into one ear and out the other. I've got two yrs to worry about it so I will worry then. Donna - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: Joan Bostic Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:06:56 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: changing instructors "...wondering what situation(s) or actions would it take for you to consider changing instructors or GM's." Hmmm... the realization that he/she/they were more interested in my tuition than my growth as a martial artist... Seriously, I would change associations if I felt that my GM either espoused ideas or acted in a way that was ethically questionable, or if he appeared to use people or the association solely for his personal gain. Legitimate reasons for changing instructors are more plentiful: disineterest on the part of an instructor; a bad fit - on a personal level; any sense of bias because of age, gender, race, etc.; incompatible teaching/learning style; intentional sexual harassment; are just a few that come to mind. In the end, like it or not, it's a buyer's market. If a student is uncomfortable with the instructor or GM and has tried unsuccessfully to resolve it, he/she should look elsewhere. Even if they and not the instructor are really the problem, it benefits no one for them to stay. Good to have you back, Jamaica! Joan Bostic 6th gup, TSD Two Harbors, MN ------------------------------ From: "Ray Terry" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:17:43 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Friday chat A call for a 'chat' for members of the_dojang in our chatroom. Just point your browser to http://www.escribe.com/martialarts/dojang/chat. Friday, August 20, 6PM Pacific Daylight Time, 9PM Eastern Daylight Time. No specific topic for discussion. But if folks are interested, per JP's suggestion, I could comment on weapons training (sticks, knives, firearms, etc.) if people are interested and have basic questions (i.e. simple ones that I can hopefully answer :). Hope to see you then and there... Ray Terry rterry@best.com http://www.martialartsresource.com ------------------------------ From: Nyneerland@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:30:02 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Secret recipe for success Regarding Jamaica Power's last question... (nice to see you again JP!!) <>> Personally, I find that if I don't get in some physical excercise, my mental well-being goes down the tubes without my realizing it. Martial Arts to me is the perfect workout, as it allows all of us the opportunity to replicate and find the yin/yang or inner "balance" during each class through spiritual, mental and physical workouts. It's MAINTAINING that balance through everyday life that is the REAL secret recipe to success! Tang Soo! A. Conlon ------------------------------ From: Kim Jones Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: No flames, no hurt feelings Indeed, while I wallow in my misery as I can't quite be as active as my fellow martial artists, I do feel the great need that while you should look out for numero uno, whatever happened to courtesy? That sounds like one of the five tenets. I mean, if someone doesn't have enough room, I'll move for them because I wouldn't want someone to be all in my space. People need their space, and I'm a space hog, so I'll definitely give people theirs because I respect them. Blindly sitting there from here on out when I'm about to cuss you out in Korean in the middle of class will warrant a swift kick to the.... yes, I do look out for myself, but I'm not completely selfish. I'm dealing with not being 100% mobile... hee hee, I have to limp around the house. Of course, I get yelled at when I depart to go down the street to a friend's house for two hours, but that's okay... I can't stay off it completely because if I do, my feet muscles will forget how to work and I'll be back at square one... and I don't need to go thru complete walking rehab... I hated my crawling days... that stupid coffee table still smarts... Thanks to all who have said anything, whether on the list or in private. You can't hurt my feelings by saying what you believe; I encourage that because I say what I think regardless, so of course I respect you to let you speak your mind before I blast you. =) But seriously, anyone who's said anything, thanks. === Kim Jones (ladytimberland@yahoo.com) Webpage - http://members.tripod.com/NekoChan00/ AOL IM - OmegaKage IcQ - 46316779 (Timberland Monk) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #404 >In fact, human >genome research shows that (other than the Ainu) rather than descending >from >Heaven like the Emperor's clan was alleged to have done, much of the >Japanese >population has descended from a Korean stock! As far as I recall, the last information I read on the subject (National Geographic, sometime in the last 5 years) seemed to indicate the probable ancestors of the main Japanese population were Manchu. Is your source recent, and could you cite it please? === Tang Soo! Scott ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 06:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: Fees > How much instruction? If you're talking TKD, you can generally have > one instructor teach a large group without much decrease in quality of > instruction. HKD generally requires each person to be taught separately due > to differences in techniquese learned, level of experience, etc.. Our > students get their $'s worth. BTW, the rate is $100/hour for private > lesson, if you want. And folks, this is accurate. You want to study privately with a well known Grandmaster? Get ready to pay $100 to $150 per hour. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #404: "WDSC" Laura Kamienski wrote: Hmmm. Sounds like the "WDCS" is just incredibly arrogant, or they know that their seminar is a rip-off. IOW, if you could really be a threat to compete with them on the basis of hand-written notes from taking the course one time, is there any possible way that it could be worth anything like $500? In either case, I would be very reluctant to trust my physical safety to instruction form such a source:<( === Tang Soo! Scott ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 06:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #407 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.