From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #412 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 21 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 412 In this issue: the_dojang: eskrima the_dojang: Working on a Website the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #411 the_dojang: RE: Timid and scared M.A. Students the_dojang: Taekwondo in Kumite the_dojang: prices the_dojang: Women's SD a reality check the_dojang: Long Post About AWSDA the_dojang: Re: Disciplining kids outside the classroom the_dojang: Re: DD 411 titled: DD 410" and "re: male self defense class" Re: the_dojang: Taekwondo in Kumite the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~750 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: eskrima Just reminder about my 'other list', in case someone is interested. Ray Terry rterry@best.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you practice Eskrima/Kali/Arnis or some other Filipino martial art? If so, why not join the Filipino martial arts e-mail distribution list? Eskrima-Digest is a ~1100 member e-mail distribution list for the respectful discussion of the Filipino martial arts, for those wheresoever dispersed around the globe. 5+ years of continuous operation. The list is managed by "Majordomo". To subscribe to eskrima-digest send e-mail to the address; majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com with subscribe eskrima-digest in the BODY of the message, top line and left justified (not in the subject line). Also, make sure your e-mail is not in HTML format, use 'Plain Text' if using Outlook or Outlook Express. Brought to you by http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ------------------------------ From: Eric Mueller Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:27:42 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Working on a Website Hi Everybody, I am working on a TKD Website which I hope will provide a resource for those Brand new to Taekwondo as well as the more experienced Taekwondoin. But, I NEED YOUR HELP As part of the Website, I plan to have pages devoted to: Upcoming events (Local, National, and International) I have a good handle on USTU National, and WTF International Tournaments (Olympic Sparring), but if you know of any Local or State Tournaments and or any other Tournaments i.e.: ITF or Point Sparring (or even Karate, Kung-fu, etc.) I would appreciate it if you could e-mail me privately. Book & Video Reviews I will also have a section on TKD resources: Training Books, Training Videos. If you have read or seen any please e-mail me with the Title, Author (if applicable) Publisher / Video Producer, and what you liked and didn't like about the book/video. A Dojang Directory I will compile a State-By-State (and Country by country as appropriate) List of Dojangs. I will need (as applicable): School (Dojang) Name, Address, Telephone Number, Website URL What Style(s) of TKD are taught (e.g.: Strictly ATA School..... Mix of WTF sparring and ITF Forms etc.), What, if any Organization your Dojang is affiliated (USTU, ITF etc.) What type of Black Belt Certification is Offered (Kukkiwon, School Certificate etc.) What Type of Financial Program (Pay by the Month only, Yearly contracts only, and a Low to High Estimate of Annual cost per student, belt test fees excluded) for example: "$600 a year if you pay for the full year in advance to $1000 a year if you pay month by month and are on the tournament team/demonstration team etc." Please include the average cost for Belt test fees. Finally, and most importantly, tell us a bit about the school and the head instructor/master. Hey It's FREE ADVERTISING. My primary goal is to provide a website that will ask the questions and provide the answers for those who are new to TKD or simply interested in TKD. It should be up and running soon, I am about 1/3 to 1/2 done right now - and I will let you know the URL when the site is ready. In the meantime, any help would be greatly appreciated. Please send your responses to my personal e-mail address: ericm@friend.ly.net Thank you, Eric Mueller ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:34:47 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #411 Sorry .... I don't download these things so I guess I won't find out what was said here. Bummer. Illona ------------------------------ From: RUlibarri1@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:30:03 EDT Subject: the_dojang: RE: Timid and scared M.A. Students Hello all: Regarding this issue -- while I would not describe myself as a timid or scared student of the martial arts, I am a person who could be described as a "gentle spirit", and I have always been this way. I took up Taekwondo in a local club in 1996 to develop self defense and self confidence. When I decided to take up the study of TKD I approached it from a sports point of view, thinking, "I'm as athletically inclined as any person in this dojang, black belt or no, and I can keep up with them as well." Standing 6'4" and 220# doesn't hurt either. So I kept up with the PT and the practice. I remember my first sparring session. It was with our senior instructor. He's 5'1" and I'm 6'4" but I was nevertheless quite nervous. He was going round-robin with the new students and my turn came up. I didn't have a clue what I was doing at the time, only basic front/roundhouse kicking skill. But as wierd as it might sound, there was something like a transferrence of the fighting spirit in that first sparring session that I never forgot. Within 6 months I was competing in and winning WTF tournaments and I was jazzed! I am still a gentle spirit but I am now tempered with the fighting spirit developed by my training in Taekwondo. It is an act of self discipline to contain negative thought patterns in dangerous situations but even if I'm feeling scared I don't think I look scared to the other guy. I'm going for dan this year and continuing in my martial arts training. I just change my mindset when it comes to the martial arts. Ray U. ------------------------------ From: RUlibarri1@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:42:54 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Taekwondo in Kumite I am a Taekwondo student interested in competing in kumite karate point tournaments. While I have had great success in WTF Taekwondo tournaments, I am finding my training lacking for kumite rules. Last week I entered a karate point tournament and was promptly eliminated in the first round, 3 points to 1 in the brown belt division. Same story for my first kumite tournament in 1996. It happened so fast, I didn't even break a sweat, which I am used to doing in kyorugi. Here are some obvious differences between kumite and kyorugi: Kumite allows punches to the face and head (and groin in this tourney) while TKD disallows punching the head. Kyorugi is in rounds, while kumite matches stop after a point is scored and opponents are reset. In kumite most points are scored with punches to the head while TKD is mostly scored with kicks to the body and head. Now I know to be successful I have to spar kumite style and I plan to find a place to do so. But the matches go by so fast it's hard to say if proper technique is being used. For example, my opponent simply jumped up and toward me while swinging his arms around my guard and he struck my head with a grazing blow. POINT. The technique was fast, so fast I hadn't expected it, and I plan to practice speed training, but I just don't know what to say about it. Does anybody have any tips for practicing this style of tournament fighting? Ray U. ------------------------------ From: "kadin goldberg" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:18:09 MDT Subject: the_dojang: prices hello people, I havent read these digests for awhile i just had to read about 7 :) Well anyway about the 300-500 $ / month for testing for a black belt, isnt that alot just to get a belt??? Can't you just not train for belts for awhile and just learn new stuff??? Why must you pay 300-500 $ just so you can say the you are a black belt. Now i am not in any martial arts yet so i dont know much, but in my opinion that is a bit rediculase. Signed, Kadin _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Laura Kamienski" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:49:54 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Women's SD a reality check Steve wrote: <> This is not what I said, effectively or ineffectively. What I said was that there are a plentitude of strong role models for men and a plentitude of ineffectual role models for women. Gender roles exist, that is a fact. Women are taught to submit under attack, men are not. That is a fact. More importantly, fault from either point of view is not the issue here. <> I wasn't attempting to address the original issue as I thought I had clearly stated. I found the original issue of interest and think the responses will be of great value. What I did was to take issue with a particular assertion within the original post. <> There was nothing casual in my remarks nor did I dismiss the fact that there are timid men. I did not address the issue of these men. Please read my post again. <> Nothing except that the comment made by my classmate was based on the bogus and reactionary theory OF reverse discrimination (which I will not take up in this forum as it is not the place). <> I agree with you here. but I think that this is a problem for women as martial artists. I think it is more of a problem for us than for men. I've often complained that men don't fight with me the same way they fight with other men. This detracts from ability to improve. How can I get better if no one really fights with me? <> 'Should' and 'are' are two different things. The fact is that women are NOT treated the same and we are taught to be timid and ineffectual as a group. Men are not. Pointing to a few assertive women and a couple of timid men serves no purpose here. To counteract the reality of the situation, separate arenas for women to train must exist in order that one day people might be treated the same. I know a whole host of women who would never even consider walking into a martial arts school because they are terrified to fight with men. I also know of a whole host of women who would break into tears facing a male opponent in a fight match. Sadly, these are the women who could benefit the most from practicing martial arts. Laura lkamiens@ptd.net http://home.switchboard.com/LKamienski ____________________________________________________ "The destination is not the purpose of a journey; death is not the purpose of life." -Thich Nhat Hanh ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: TaoArt@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:12:41 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Long Post About AWSDA From August 5-9, I attended the Eighth Annual American Women's Self Defense Association's Training Conference in Long Island. Here is a rundown of my experience.... As a precursor, I have been a member of AWSDA for almost 4 years now. I have attended and taught at the conferences held in Sacramento, Orlando and now Long Island. I missed the Chicago date because I was 6 months pregnant at the time. This was, above and beyond, the best AWSDA event to date... and this was the opinion of many more than myself. If I would provide only one criticism it would be this: There was TOO much to do. Classes began at 7AM and went straight through til 8PM with only a short lunch break. Each course was a minimum of 2 hours long (some as long as 5 hours). Dinner was at 8:30 when everyone gathered (after a quick shower) to discuss all the new stuff they learned. The turnout was respectable... I'm uncertain as to the exact numbers, but well over 150 attendees, from as far away as Alaska. I started the day with a quick breakfast and delivering/accepting hugs and handshakes from a host of faces I see only once a year. These are good people who proudly wear their motto on the front of their shirts "Loyalty Above All Else..." and on the back "Except Honor". These professionals are a rich diversity of races and religons, but we all share a common goal: Teaching women that they have the absolute right to protect themselves... and giving them the training to do so successfully. The first class I attended was put on by a husband and wife team... both parents and both undercover cops for the NYPD. Lisa and George showed a series of defensive techniques while holding an infant in your arms... how to block, strike and even leg grapple. They covered handgun disarms when you have to consider the people around you (so that your disarm does not cause a misfire into an innocent bystander). A good class that could have used about 2 more hours to cover more scenarios. Then I was delighted to find out that both my student and I won the lottery drawing to attend the Environmental Simulator at the Modern Warrior facility on Long Island. I have been through the ES once before when I attended the International Use of Force conference a few years ago (as a law enforcement trainer). The ES training started with the first scenario: You are armed with a revolver and an attacker is charging you from in front as well as another from behind. You have to kick back the dummy as it swings toward you, drop into ground shooting position (on your back with legs crossed), shoot the knife weilding dummy, address the advancing one in back, shoot from the same position (which means you are looking at him upside down) and then roll out while keeping you firearm trained on the last attacker. The next scenario was the following: You enter into a restaurant and are told to have a seat at the table in the rear with your friend. You have a sidearm in your purse or in your waistband. Sometime during the next few minutes something - but you have no idea what - will happen. My scenario was a mob hit. The 3rd man to walk in acted normal, but raised his voice as he walked past one table, drew a gun and started shooting. He got 2 people before I could get to my feet and draw my sidearm. He shot a third as I fired. I hit him center mass once and in the hand holding the gun once. The scenerio was called to a halt and we reviewed my procedures. I actually aimed for center mass both shots but the instructor said that it is common to subconsciously aim for the perceived threat (the gun). However, my reaction time was decent (for a civilian) and the center mass shot was well placed. The last scenario was the city scape. You know only three things: 2 men are chasing you, there is a second, loaded sidearm somewhere in the room, and when the lights go on and the rain turns off the scenario is over. I went last of about 12 people. I opted not to wear body armor but the face mask is mandatory. These are plastic bullets being shot with real gun powder from real guns (Simmunitions for those who know the stuff). The moment I ran into the 2 story warehouse it was raining (sprinkler system), there were strobe lights and sirens and there was a huge fan simulating wind. I chose to dive under the fence in front of me instead of going up over it (making me a target). I scanned and saw a man high and to my right. I shot and then did a dive roll over the car hood in front of me. At this point my mask decided to spin around almost completely removing my vision. O joy. As I adjusted it, I noticed the second firearm on the seat of the car. I dove through the open window, grabbed the gun and threw myself back out. I was about to discard my other gun because in my excitement, I failed to count my shots. But I knew that I didn't use all six. Then I remembered that you never leave a loaded weapon behind you. Meanwhile, I am being shot at. So I shove the gun in my waistband. And my pants almost fall. This never happens in the friggin' movies, I say to myself. So screw it. I hold both guns, one in each hand, and I make for the building behind me. I dive behind the wall and make the REALLY stupid choice of looking around the wall to see if I am being followed. POCK! I just got shot in the head. Damn. I duck back behind the wall. Then I realize it is a wood wall: Concealment. Not Cover. (Can't shoot through cover). So I run down the hall toward the elevator. The doors open and I run in. The strobe lights are flickering as the door to my left (as opposed to the door in front of me) opens up. I dive roll out and see a figure descending toward me. I shoot both guns twice into his center mass (ok, maybe a wee bit overkill). I then hear a noise behind me and start running again. In total, I was chased through the simulator three times without even a pause. I think the staff had it in for me because most of them were friends of mine. :) I changed out of my wet clothes and examined my fresh bruises while laughing with the other particpants at my new nickname: Two-Gun Meghan. We got back too late for me to attend the second half of a class I missed last year and wanted to go to this year: Edged Weapons Put Bluntly by NYPD's Pat Mclaughlin. A very graphic and analytical look at the damage capabilities of edged weapons as well as a an examination of case studies. The next morning I took a class in Verbal Self Defense Training. It was a decent course but I had a difficult time with a particular scenario that the instructor used to describe as an example of "harrassment". I found the scenario to be simply a misunderstanding and mixed messages and did not justify her response. I also found myself on the receiving end of a number of comments about my insensitivity to the plight of women. Ah well. Won't be the first time. I guess being a woman doesn't automatically qualify me as "informed" in this area. Next, I took a refresher in the Physiology of Stress & Application to Combat which discussed the effects of Epinephrine (Adrenaline) on the Mind and Body. A wonderful multi-media presentation that turned dry science into a festival of learning. Kudos to the instructor. He obviously put a huge effort into his presentation. I then took a review course in Handgun Safety (already know the material, but it is always good to review such vital info). Had a good time with the interactive cd-rom display as well as the laser target system. Won a prize by being the best shot... 30 bullseyes in 35 seconds with 3 misses. Next was a fabulous course in Instinctive Firearm Disarming and Retention. I don't usually bulk up on the firearm courses, but I will probably be purchasing a firearm next year and wanted some good exposure to various experts. I really appreciated the blind disarms we worked on. Last for that day was probably the 2nd best course of the weekend: Steven Jimmerfield's One on One Control Tactics and Ground Fighting. Steven is a straight talking man who has put a huge effort in devising control techniques and escapes that involve as little strength as possible. He is a cop from Alaska. I plan on having him fly out to my facility for a seminar. The last day was filled mostly with my own lecture on Concepts in Self Defense. Did the lecture twice. Then took a class another class in Ground Fighting from Linda Lang... a very humble and powerful woman. Also took a real look at lethal force in Phil Messina's "See Jane Fight, See Dick Die". That man (and his wife) will never cease to amaze me. Ended the conference with the Regional Director's Meeting. Said our goodbye's... gave one last sneak attack on my friend Barry and then drove 5 hours to home. Next year's conference will be in the state of Washington, I believe. Sounds like another good excuse to travel, roll around on the ground with a 6'8 attacker (who is the nicest man I ever knee'd in the groin) and jump each other in the hotel elevator. Meghan Gardner Instructor Director AMWA http://users.aol.com/taoart/amwa/amwa.htm - A Comprehensive Martial Arts and Self Defense website: With an online bookstore, public bulletin board, articles, and over 1000 links. ------------------------------ From: Steven Gilmore Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:39:39 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Disciplining kids outside the classroom >If you saw a child that you thought was misbehaving (not necessarily doing >something really bad) but goofing around a bit; outside of the classroom, >not on a class day, would you discipline them verbally or otherwise? >And would you do it even if you suspected the parents were in close range? Without even the slightest hint of a second thought, yes, absolutely, I would discipline the kid... and I have done so numerous times, most recently at a restaurant where this mother and father were letting their 2 children run wild about the dining room; I actually had this little girl (probably 6 years old) come up to me while I was eating and try to crawl under my table. I stopped her, told her that this was not a playground and that she was to immediately return to "parents" and sit quietly. The mother glared at me; the father averted his eyes. I really wanted to have a nice mat chat with mommy ("what kind of adults do you think your children will become without discipline and good examples of proper behavior?") but decided against it. My experience (2+ years of teaching kids from age 4 and up) is that there are no bad kids... but there is a pandemic of lousy parents: people too "busy" (self-involved, more like it) or afraid to be a PARENT and set and then enforce rules. Lo and behold, these were usually the people that brought me their children and asked me (for a pretty good chunk of change) to "discipline" their kids (uh, guess what -- I'll see your kid for maybe 3 hours a week -- how much influence do you really think I'm gonna have -- compared to you who live with him/her...). It made me really want to "discipline" the parents. Sorry, but this is a soapbox subject for me... was it obvious? Sincerely, Steven Gilmore Houston, TX, USA ------------------------------ From: "Bradley G. Smith" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:23:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: DD 411 titled: DD 410" and "re: male self defense class" Society gives BOTH genders cues to be agressive AND meek, and holds both genders accountable for responding "poorly" or "inappropriately" when in reality both genders can easily "miscue". Males and females are both castigated if they are not "assertive" or "sensitive" on time and according to expectations that are not always spelled out as neatly as one's social judge and jury would assert. My teacher has always had students of both genders in the same classroom. The genders are never segregated. The expectations are the same. If a senior uses poor control with a junior of either gender or uses poor discrimination of the student's ability (discrimination in the perceptual sense) leading to inappropriate contact, regardless of the junior's gender (or the senior's gender for that matter) the senior is disciplined. Individuality: regardless of a student's gender, teachers and seniors introduce and promote problem-solving skills to juniors where the student may come in off the street with none in place, or more than none. One tries to teach them all. I am a six foot eight or nine inch man weighing around three hundred pounds. I once had a romantic partner (female) who was five four or five five who threw all my glassware at me (blocked), smashed a chair over my head (blocked), attacked me with a carving knife (blocked), and etc.. I am a very easy to get along with man. My only point in bringing this up is that there's no telling. Male or female doesn't matter. Gender-based predictions of behavior are probably useful when studying large groups, but if you don't focus on the individual you may end up blocking with your face or missing a chance to learn something you would regret if you only knew. Best regards, Bradley Smith ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Taekwondo in Kumite > > Does anybody have any tips for practicing this style of tournament fighting? > IMHO, forget about working combinations, counters, etc. Just be blazingly fast, explosively fast. As you've seen, once that first reasonable contact is made the match is stopped to check for a point. Plyometric training would probably help. I really hate point sparring... IMHO, it just isn't realistic. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #412 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.