From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #414 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 21 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 414 In this issue: the_dojang: Schools in the Rockies? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 the_dojang: Re: virtual dojang the_dojang: Re: humbling experience [was: Driving home...] the_dojang: Walking away [Was: Driving home...] the_dojang: MA and the Internet [was: Virtual Dojang] Re: the_dojang: Re: humbling experience [was: Driving home...] the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~750 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Todd and Debi Deininger" Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:03:26 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Schools in the Rockies? Greg asked >Anybody know af any schools in the four corners area of the US? > >(Durango, CO.... maybe Cortez, CO... maybe Farmington, NM?) > I know a great aiki/kenjutsu school in Pagossa Springs. Todd Longmont, CO ------------------------------ From: LJSFLEM@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:58:00 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #402 In a message dated 8/17/99 7:06:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: Ken Ashworth Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:49:07 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Belt Fees I am a new TKDist. I have been training for 3 months. My first belt test is in two weeks. Classes are $65.00/month. There are classes available 5 days per week of which I attend 3. I just received an information form for the belt test. The last line states the fee is $50.00. Is that out of line? Is that normal? Just geting started. Ken >> I find this an interesting topic. The school we attended had us on contract. We were able to break the contract with a medical injury letter from a certified physician. The school cost the two of us together approx. $1600 for the year and tests were $45 each approx. 2 months apart. I have no idea regarding contracts vs. monthly and test fees. I live in the metro NY area in NJ suburbs. Wondering if these things vary. Lorraine ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:10:06 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: virtual dojang Mr. Terry responded to Ms. Power's wish: >Well, think several people with digital cameras attached to their computer >(netcams) using M$ Netmeeting or Intel Videophone. The technology will >continue to evolve, but it is getting to the point where we -can- do the above >in smaller groups. Actually, we had talked about doing this at our Dojang last year since our Grandmaster has 2 schools in San Jose, CA and was opening schools in Japan and Korea. He wanted to be able to communicate back and forth, and to encourage student exchanges. Another student and I volunteered to help him set up the hardware and software. However, I think he got too busy with other things and this hasn't been discussed since. I think that in the near future, Virtual Dojangs will become a useful tool to increase student participation and inter-school relationship. I for one would love the opportunity to meet other martial artists and participate in the workouts at other schools. I'd go to a different school every night, maybe from the "comfort" of my home. Anyone planning on starting a Virtual Dojang, let me know! I'd like to get involved. Kamsahamnida! Stan Lim TKD, San Jose, CA ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:27:43 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: humbling experience [was: Driving home...] From: Ray Terry >You did the right thing. I know I did the right thing. It just doesn't feel good to flee :-) >You might have played your TKD and your chuks cards, but he could have trumped >your TKD & chuks and played a gun card... Yeah, and not knowing if he was packing heat probably factored into my "fight or flight" decision. >Most people probably know that I'm VERY pro-gun, but I'm not about to >escalate an 'interpersonal encounter' to the point where said weapon might >be brought into play. Been there, done that [stupid thing]. Looking down >the barrel of a firearm is a very humbling experience... Well, I am glad you are here with us today to share your experiences with us. This sparked a few questions in me. Perhaps you can answer them, even though they are not martial arts related. When would it become justified to being guns into play? In self-defense, just as with using any MA? Any other instances? Are there ways to use guns defensively or as deterrents that won't land you in court? Say you see a mugger with a knife, accosting someone (or yourself). Would it be okay to flash the gun to stop the mugger? This experience has for the first time made me consider the possibility of gun ownership. Indiana Jones demonstrated the need for it in the most entertaining manner when dealing with raving maniacs who are threatening you with mortal harm. Kamsahamnida. Stan Lim slim@employees.org ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:32:16 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Walking away [Was: Driving home...] >From: Michelle Fox > >Stan, > >Good thing you didn't get out of your car. Who knows what might have >happened. The hardest thing to do is walk "drive" (in your case) away. I >had a couple of incidences where my adrenalin was at it's highest. Two >separate incidences and I walked away. I grew up in a town where fighting >is the norm. I was used to fighting, all the time. And I'm Female! That >was the HARDEST thing I ever had to do. I just kept telling myself, "It >takes a stronger person to walk away." Now, that I look at it, I'm glad I >did what I did. I do know that if I had to fight, I would've. > >You are so right when you say there are some pretty wacky people out there >in the world. > >Take care! >Michelle Michelle, For me, it is certainly harder on my ego to walk away from a possible confrontation. If I didn't have any MA training, I probably would have walked away just out of fear and self-preservation. However, with MA knowledge, I tend to think that these sort of situations are one of the reasons I take MA training in the first place. I should be very thankful that I have never been forced to fight. Kamsahamnida. Stan slim@employees.org ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:35:32 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: MA and the Internet [was: Virtual Dojang] The thread on "Virtual Dojang" got me thinking on how technology might be used to improve martial arts learning. Besides using video conferencing, chats, mailing-lists and basic web site access, what other internet tools can we employ to bring traditional martial arts teaching and learning into the next millennium? What other application and tools can we use, or dream of using that has not been used yet? What are your other wish-list items for using the Internet? For you instructors and school owners out there, how interested would you be to have your classes broadcasted on the Internet (to maybe paying customers)? Or do we see the use of video conferencing as a tool for a couple of individuals "sharing" a workout session together as more of a social function? One of the ideas we had considered at our dojang last year was to have our classes broadcasted on the Internet for free as a publicity generating gimmick for the school. However, the cost to do it was high enough that the Grandmaster wasn't interested. Now that costs have come down, would other dojang owners be interested? Kamsahamnida. Stan Lim slim@employees.org ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: humbling experience [was: Driving home...] > >Most people probably know that I'm VERY pro-gun, but I'm not about to > >escalate an 'interpersonal encounter' to the point where said weapon might > >be brought into play. Been there, done that [stupid thing]. Looking down > >the barrel of a firearm is a very humbling experience... > > Well, I am glad you are here with us today to share your experiences with > us. This sparked a few questions in me. Perhaps you can answer them, even > though they are not martial arts related. > > When would it become justified to being guns into play? In self-defense, > just as with using any MA? Any other instances? Cities, counties, and states will differ... But in general you are only justified in -using- a firearm when you feel your life, or the life of a friend or loved one, is in severe danger. In some cases you are free to use a firearm to halt a felony in progress, but that is a problematic area for a private citizen. (by use I mean fire) However, realize that in the hands of private law abiding citizens, firearms are seldom fired. 98% of the time a firearm is used to halt a crime or attack it is never fired. After all, if someone pointed a gun at you and said STOP, wouldn't you stop? :) So what happens much (some?) of the time? A private citizen uses a firearm to halt a crime, no one is hurt as the gun is not fired, and as long as nothing is stolen and no one is hurt, it is not reported to the police since many people just don't want the hassle. > Are there ways to use guns defensively or as deterrents that won't land > you in court? Say you see a mugger with a knife, accosting someone (or > yourself). Would it be okay to flash the gun to stop the mugger? See above. But you are not permitted to flash a firearm just to get respect. i.e. your neighbor is getting VERY loud (your life is not in danger), you cannot put your handgun in your belt where it can be seen as you stop over to ask them to turn it down. That is a crime (in Calif anyway). State penal codes vary greatly. I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV, but consider the following... In Mass if someone breaks into your own house and attacks you and your family, you must do everything humanly possible to avoid the confrontation. You must leave your house via a window, if there is a window handy. In Calif if someone breaks into your home you are immediately permitted to shoot them (but you had to prove they broke in and just didn't walk in an unlocked door). Or at least that was the case a few years back. Things may have changed in one or both states. And no, I don't encourage people to shoot any stranger they may find in their home... :) In short, a private citizen will typically only have access to a firearm in their home or on their property. In general you are not permitted to use a firearm to defend property (I think Texas may be one counter example). You use a firearm to defend yourself, family, friends from severe injury. For those private citizens that are permitted to carry a firearm (concealed or otherwise), you would typically only want to use said firearm to again defend against severe injury. You -could- use it to play cop, but the liability issues, the situations that arise when LEOs do arrive on the scene and think you're the bad guy because you have a gun in your hand, make me say 'just leave it concealed'. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #414 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.