From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #416 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 23 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 416 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The Castle Law the_dojang: Seminar Report - Master Hal Whalen (Long) the_dojang: CA State Laws [none] the_dojang: Re: Testing fees the_dojang: Breaking the_dojang: Re: Taekwondo in Kumite the_dojang: Chuks the_dojang: Re: Long-term programs the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~750 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:27:11 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The Castle Law >Somebody: << I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on > TV, but consider the following... In Mass if someone breaks into your own > house and attacks you and your family, you must do everything humanly >possible > to avoid the confrontation. You must leave your house via a window, if > there > is a window handy. >> > >M. Gardner: Umm, I live in the good ol' state of taxachusetts and I >believe that since >the "Castle Law" came into effect some years ago that this is no longer true. > According to the NRA certified firearms instructor who I took a course from >about 3 years ago, you are not required to retreat from your home. Then there's always the issue of right and wrong which quite often coincide poorly with the law. The "hah, hah - you're in my house, so now I get to shoot you" - mentality is a dangerous one. All ethics driven by fear ends up escalating the fear and brutality in a society. This was very philosophical, but hey - that's not so bad - is it ? Sincerely, Anders Torvill Bjorvand ------------------------------ From: "Victor Cushing" Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:48:11 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Seminar Report - Master Hal Whalen (Long) On Saturday 21 August I traveled to South Windsor, CT to attend a 5 hour Hapkido Seminar presented by Master Hal Whalen hosted by Master Michael McCarty, both of Hapkido Moo Ye Kwan. My traveling and training partner for this trip was Master George Conrad (a World Tang So Do Association school owner) who is an avid cross-trainer. We were pleased to see a gathering of Hapkido practitioners that included leading Masters from three Hapkido organizations in one room, namely: Hapkido Moo Ye Kwan (http://www.mooyekwan.org) The Australian Hapkido Group (http://hapkido.netro.com.au/) The International Modern Hapkido Federation (http://modernhapkido.org/). This seminar lead ably by Master Whalen is an example of how it is possible to have cooperation across and among all of us within the same art. I had the chance to meet Master Geoff Booth, an able and knowledgeable Hapkido player. Master Geoff J. Booth is the Chief Instructor and founder of both the International Hapkido Alliance and the Australian Hapkido Group. He teaches and trains at Booth's Hapkido Academy located in Liverpool, New South Wales, Australia. Currently holding the rank of 7th Degree in Hapkido (Certificate number 208) under the Korea Sin Moo Hapkido Association and Grandmaster Han, Jae Ji. Master Booth started his training in 1977, and has had exposure to and is ranked in Tae Kwon Do, and Southern Shaolin Tiger & Dragon Kung Fu. We were treated to a sampler/refresher of Hapkido techniques and philosophy from Master Whalen who for the most part remembered that some of us have gotten older and still want to be able to train again tomorrow. The material presented was not intended to make anyone an expert in any particular area, just to show a range of techniques. Master Whalen covered breathing exercises, kicks and how to make them most effective in street situations, a selection of joint locks and clothing grabs, a few cane techniques, knife defenses and handgun disarms (as well as the carefully chosen cautions that must be discussed when weapons disarms are shown). (1) Knives cut, and if you go to disarm you may get cut, and if you use some of the often taught and ineffective techniques it is a virtual surety that you will. (2) Guns fire bullets, unless you are close to the weapon don't attempt any disarm, and when disarming... if you don't avoid the muzzle and/or control where it is pointed, you will get shot. All of this was presented with high energy, a good delivery, and plenty of humor. The seminar was what you look for in any good seminar....some reminders of what you already know with some ideas on how to teach or explain better, some individual twists on how to execute various techniques, some things you aren't going to do (maybe because your skills aren't at that level or they just don't fit your karma), and a lot of talk with other participants and the sheer joy of a good sweat with aching joints and muscles to remind you of the experience. In addition, Master Whalen showed his own variations on cane techniques which fit with my personal view that many traditional cane methods need to be modernized. This, of course raised him higher in my estimation as one always appreciates someone smart enough to agree with you. As a simple example, as an attacker throws a right punch at you, many traditional methods have you blocking the attack with your left hand and then inserting a cane technique. Master Whalen and I propose that one should strike with the weapon first rather than inserting the non-weapon hand for a block or grab. We both concluded that one way to re-enforce this concept is to hold the cane in your right hand and take as deep a left front stance as you can. Even in this position, it is clear when you extend your right hand that the cane reaches out much farther than your left hand. Then in reality your right hand is the lead hand. Now we are not in any way suggesting that you fight from this stance, just that this is a way to understand why you should strike first with the cane and then go for grabs, takedowns, locks, etc. During the seminar we were exposed to a demonstration of the Korean sword art of Kuhapdo by Todd Miller who is 4th Dan WTF and 3rd dan under GM Lim who teaches both Hapkido and that sword art. There was a quiet confidence exhibited as well as many draws, cuts and resheathing (forgive me for not knowing the proper terminology). Master George Conrad, who has far more experience with sword play than I do, related to me on our drive home that one skill that is essential is finding the scabbard without looking and being sure the sword is oriented correctly (blade up or else you risk losing your thumb). I am not qualified to be a judge of anyone's swordmanship, but it was impressive. The day ended with a dinner at a local Korean restaurant replete with Obi (for those of us so inclined) or assorted soft drinks, and various Korean dishes such as Kochu Panjun, Bulgogi, Bibimbab, KimChi, and loads of conversation about Hapkido, its politics and associated Grandmasters. In summary it was a great time. The next seminar that Master Whalen is presenting is in Dover, NH on Saturday 18 SEP 99. For details about this seminar check http://www.mooyekwan.org/seminar.html Vic Cushing ------------------------------ From: "Dennis S. Troy Jr." Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:51:28 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: CA State Laws Ray Terry said, "But I think the penal codes are also available free somewhere on the web." There is a web site that I go to when looking up laws for the this state. http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html Dennis S. Troy Jr. ------------------------------ From: "kadin goldberg" Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:47:26 MDT Subject: [none] >I think the price is a one-time cost for the black belt test, i.e., > $300 >for >a 1st Dan, $500 for a 2nd Dan, etc. Most of the monthly prices > average >$50-$75. The gup testing I believe to range about the same as the > >monthly >prices, more or less, with the testing occuring every 2 to 3 months. To tell ya the truth, I cant afford that. I am a kid and my parents would never give that much money. They could hardly pay the $30 / month for me to train. Just to do something for fun i dont think i am going to try and raise 300$. That my friend is not fun to me. - ---kadin _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Stan Lim Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:25:30 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Testing fees >From: MissIllona@aol.com > >Wow, I don't know about anyone else but here in California (in the desert) >that would be a high price to pay for a belt test fee. I have heard of $35 >... (we charge $25) ... but not $50 unless they were going for Recommended >Black Belt or something. > >Illona Wow, what a bargain. In my school, testing fees start at $35 and go up $5 to $10 per rank. My last test was $75 or $80. That's Sillicon Valley prices for you :-) Stan ------------------------------ From: Julie Jezek Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:50:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Breaking I am trying to come up with a break to do for my second degree test. The only requirements that I have been given are: 1) impress the judges 2) you must break I have been thinking about cement blocks, soaps, but I am looking for something that is not a normal break that others will be doing. I am testing with two other people, both older, heavier males, and they are doing 3-4 soaps, but I a female, 17 year old, want to be able to have a break that wuld look just as good as theirs, however so far I have not been able to break that many soaps. Any suggestions would be nice!! Thanks Julie Pangie@owc.net ------------------------------ From: K.P.Beckett@sussex.ac.uk (Kevin Beckett) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:48:16 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Taekwondo in Kumite > From: RUlibarri1@aol.com > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:42:54 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Taekwondo in Kumite > > Does anybody have any tips for practicing this style of tournament fighting? > > Ray U. Dear Ray, I did about a year of freestyle karate a few years ago after training in TSD for a few years. I caught a lot of nose bleeds and fat lips in my first few months until I relaxed into their style of sparring. The best advice I can give from my experience is to move your guard way up, use your lead leg to block kicks, use attacking techniques almost solely off your lead hand and leg, fire mostly jabbing shots (hand and foot) and play with lots of feints. I got bored with point-stop fairly quickly, but the experience has proved invaluable in sharpening up my general sparring technique. Hope this helps. Paul. k.p.beckett@sussex.ac.uk ------------------------------ From: William Deady Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: Chuks To all who asked for the poster of the basic chuks form, etc.: I am now back from vacation (which was way too short) and will be scanning the poster and sending it out in a couple days. I guess the best way to get you all the book info is to post it here. Turns out I left the book at the dojang, but will be there tomorrow (Tuesday) night and will get author, etc. Look for a post here in the next couple days. Thanks Bill Deady deady@ll.mit.edu ------------------------------ From: Brett Erwin Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:10:29 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Long-term programs >With all due respect, Brett, it IS the school owner's fault. No new student >knows when he starts if he is going to like it or not, nor does the >instructor or owner. Martial arts training is not for everyone. I don't >care how good the instructor is, some students are going to quit before black >belt (statistically, I understand, about 90%). Signing someone up for a 3 >year black belt program when they may not stick it out past green belt >(where, in my experience, there is a large attrition) is abusive in my >opinion. What do you do if they want to quit before the three years? Keep >charging them? Take them to court? Let them forfeit prepaid tuition? That >may be business, but it's bad business. Word of mouth of such practices can >kill a school. Kurt, you bring up some good questions. First, let me say that I am not a pro-"long-contracts" guy. I don't even own a school. However, I am heavily involved with a school, and I see how these contrats can work (albeit not always). You are correct. No new student knows initially if he will like M.A. or not. That is why most schools that do contracts have an into/trial period of a month, or 6 weeks, etc. After that time, the student must decide if he wants to continue to train. Or to put it another way, if he wants to PURCHASE THE PRODUCT. I put that in caps to stress my point that the owner is selling a product, pure and simple. What an owner decides to charge for his product isn't "abusive", it's business. When you buy a car, all you get is a test drive (and maybe a 1 month full-refund warrenty). If you decide you don't like it after a year, do you get to stop making payments? Of course not. You are right, again, in that many students quit in the "green belt" area of 9-12 months timeframe. It's up to the instructors to try to convince the student to finish what he started, to learn a personal victory, to persevere, etc. It sounds a little cheezy, but many people need that. Kids, especially, need to learn these values. I've seens kids who are in a couple of years and want to quit at RED BELT!!! Only a few months away from black blet. I beg the parents to continue bringing the child. They need to learn to finish what they start, and finish the right way. I ask the parent if they would let the kid drop out of high school 4 months from graduation. If someone clearly is not interested, and wants to move on into something else, then so be it. We can't force people to train. I don't know what our school owner's policy is, but he's never been to court with anyone. Yes, there have been some difference of opinion b/t the owner and the (usually the parent of a child who quit). But, they usually work something out. (Pro-rated refund of pre-paid contract, stoppage of billing, etc.) Contract is an ugly word with bad connotations. I realize that. I don't think I would want to sign one. However, they can be motivating for the student to stick it out and get his money's worth. And again, it's business. *IF* an owner can charge big $$$ on a long-term contract and offers a quality program for it, and can do so successfully, then he should have every right to do so. The school I'm at now has only been open 4.5 years. They have over 300 students with the majority of them paying about $90/month on 3 year programs. We do not have anywhere near a 90% dropout rate. We have a big facility with a a padded floor, 2 ssaraubis, a dozen wavemaster heavy bags, lots of equipment, mens and womens dressing rooms with 3 showers in each. It is a state of the art facility, with great instructors (myself included :) People pay a lot to come to our school, but they get what they pay for. We must be doing something right. We've had some students quit for various reasons (failed promotional test, financial disagreements, etc) who went to train at another school. ALL of them came back to us. Anyway, this can be hashed back and forth a lot, so I won't reply any more on the list about it. Understand, that I'm not PRO-CONTRACTS. But I do understand the workable business behind them, and how to make them work if the owner wants to take that route. Location and clientel may have a lot to do with this also. Thanks for reading the whole thing. :) Brett Erwin (jberwin@raytheon.com) Allen, TX ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #416 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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