From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #426 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 27 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 426 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: USTU website the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #424 the_dojang: Re: Spirituality and MA the_dojang: Re:To change schools or not the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #425 the_dojang: Re: Going through the darkness the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #425 the_dojang: re: judo testing requirements the_dojang: BOOKS IN KOREA ON TSD the_dojang: CHIL SUNG FORMS the_dojang: Rebreakable boards the_dojang: Kumite/point sparring the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #425 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~750 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:31:25 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: USTU website Ray wrote: << So what do folks think about all the improvements recently made to the USTU website (http://www.ustu.org)? >> As many of you know, my husband and I think the improvements are great. FYI, in the parents forum, there is an article regarding tournaments which was written by my husband, Chris. For those of you who have first-time competitors, it may be of some interest. Also, in the coaches forum, you'll find an article about the Olympic Qualifier in Porec, Croatia, written by my son's instructor, Master Wes Dees. Enjoy! Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Ken Ashworth Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:21:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #424 >Donna Wrote: >I try to understand everything about MA, but this spiritual stuff kinda gets me and I am discovering with >some ppl it does not change them at all. A person in martial arts can be just as mean and hurtful as if >he never started. Some only care about improving themselves physically and not work on bettering >themselves mentally as well. Donna I'm not clear on "this spiritual stuff kinda gets me." There seems to be three things: Body - Physical side to TKD Mind - Understanding of Techniques, principles, and tenets Spiritual - Growth in relationships with each other Ken ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:48:29 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Spirituality and MA I'm going to try to keep this related to martial arts :) \ From: d g \ > \ > The spirituality I take care of in non-Eastern ways. In fact I am careful \ not \ > to mix the spiritual side of MA in my life. I don't understand. What is it about MA spirituality that conflicts with Western philosophy? \ > I don't mystify MA. I can break a board because of physics (Force = Mass \ X Velocity(Sq)). \ > If my fist is conditioned to the force applied back at it (Every action \ has an equal and opposite \ > reaction), I won't get hurt - Assuming I do the technique correctly. :) I personally find the physics of MA mystical and spiritually uplifting. The fact that it's possible to break wood and brick with you hand (as an extension of your body) seems simple enough on the surface (as you said, Force = Mass X Velocity(sq)). But when I start thinking of just the physics alone, and all the other laws of physics and the sheer complexity of the universe of which we are a part, and yet all I have to do is use simple techniques to break wood with my hand, I don't know, it's just very... spiritual. Somehow I feel that on a level I don't quite understand that I am greater than the sum of my parts and interconnected to something greater than myself. \ I try to understand everything about MA, but this spiritual stuff kinda gets \ me and I am discovering with \ some ppl it does not change them at all. A person in martial arts can be \ just as mean and hurtful as if \ he never started. Some only care about improving themselves physically and \ not work on bettering \ themselves mentally as well. Or emotionally. But, such is life. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can teach a student everything you know about being kind and just, but if he doesn't want to learn that (either consciously or unconsciously), he won't learn. - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "One little smile can fill the room with sunshine." ------------------------------ From: Sugarftkd@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:59:35 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re:To change schools or not << Subject: the_dojang: to change school or not suggestions A friend of mine, that goes to the same school of TDK as I do, is a semi-red belt. She is very unhappy with the way the school is being run lately. She was injured in class not long ago - school mate posted about her, the one with the broken hand. She wants to change schools yet being so close to getting her black belt is holding her back. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what she should do (stay or change schools) or has anyone been thru something similar? >> Hi- this is such a difficult decision. When I first came to Ohio, I was already an established BB under Jhoon Rhee (who later I understood to be 'one of the best' in later years) , however I studied under a gentleman here as a 1st gup/ acting black from time to time with the intent to learn new stuff and test again in a new system. At some point , I realized illegal &/or immoral things were going on ( a recorder in the women's dressing room and more.... ). The test was in three parts over a three week period : after the 4 hour endurance portion of the test, the following weeks fasting and 12 hour meditation; I formally left with a polite detailed explanation, prior to the weapons forms etc part the ,following week rather than get a belt under this gentleman. The events leading up to this decision were new to me and hadn't settled in during the process- that is not until meditating on it. As we all know meditation cleans up your act and can give sterling clarity. I was still in the I just want to get the belt mode. I do not recommend getting a belt from someone you do not respect . Sometimes the student learns what they can do / cannot do from a negative instructor- which can be turned into a priceless gift. A final note: The instructor has formally apologized several times over the years once infront of his staff and once infront of my assembled panel (He charmingly starts with I've made some mistakes .....and each time I was surprised as it was not necessary...)- he was not the person involved and at the time couldn't fathom the problems appropriately in my opinion. We have a super relationship and he is an honoured guest on my testing panel. Elisabethe SUGARFTKD@aol.com ------------------------------ From: LJSFLEM@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:09:31 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #425 In a message dated 8/27/99 1:13:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: Olivos@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:47:39 EDT Subject: the_dojang: suggestions A friend of mine, that goes to the same school of TDK as I do, is a semi-red >> Finally, I have been waiting for you to post. Knowing that both my pals in MA were injured in testing helped make my decision. It was the final straw. What is up for the testing scheduld for this weekend? Prior knowledge tells me there are two breaks involved and one of them is hand. The school does not allow you to select your break until you are Black Belt. Does the Instructor demand that the student with the broken hand break as required. Is she testing? The cast should be off by none. Both of you have been loyal to the school and Instructor and have given your time and knowledge to teach others and help out in every way in the school with enthusiasm. Miss you both. Good luck. Blue Belt Froggie ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@denver.carl.org Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:07:21 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Going through the darkness \ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com \ \ << "The light is reached not by turning back from the darkness, \ but by going through it." \ >> \ \ Which light might this be, and why would one wish to reach it? \ SESilz It's a metaphor. As such it will mean something different to everyone :) To me it means when one is dealt a bad hand by life (for example at one point in my life I suffered from severe depression) that one may experience growth (or enlightenment if you will) by accepting and owning the experience (I accepted that I was depressed, owned it, and from that point (by entering the darkness) was able to examine and understand it, and learn from it, experiencing growth and enlightenment). If one attempts to turn back from the darkness one actually (unkowningly) stays in the darkness. Or if one retreats from dark point in their life they won't be ready if a similar situation happens at some point in the future. This was touched on by a previous discussion about women and lack of sports for women. Women tend to grow up afraid of violence in part because they are sheltered from it. However, if a women takes a MA class and confronts that fear she can move through it, learning that she can take control in a violent situation. The fear disappears (or becomes healthy). - -David Buehrer - -- Supervisor, Database Preparation The UnCover Company mailto:dbuehrer@denver.carl.org - -- - -- "The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all of our lives." - -Einstein ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:33:46 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #425 the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > From: Olivos@aol.com > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:47:39 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: suggestions > > What can the students do in the school to make sure that the > instructor listens to them since we can't really kick him out. Any suggestion > are welcome. > > Betty > > "My friend is going to kill me once she sees this posting" There was something once wrong I felt with the attiude of one of the instructors of another school. Ppl constnatly getting hurt in this school. (broken bones and such) also these instructors loved to put you down in a way I do not approve of. Even my own instructor did not like how they run things but the one who runs this school is the chief of instructions. After one testing, seeing a young boy with a broken collorbone done by a throw in judo and also being yelled at by rules of their do-chang that we did not know about and being put down by incorrect stances. I went over their heads to the grandmaster. I also encouraged others who were not happy about it to do so also. Changes are being made now and I see less injuries and they are a little more courteous during testing. I know the testing is supposed to be tough and they try to see if they can rattle you, but they way they went about it was uncalled for. Now, I might e-mail the GM and find out the reasons behind changes in requirements for testing. Something's fishy here. I do not like it. This is the GM's idea. I want to find out why. Donna "your friend shouldn't kill you. You did not say her name" :) - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:54:40 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: re: judo testing requirements From: Piotr Bernat Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:36:52 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Judo testing required > I don`t really think it`s a good idea. We also do more than one style in our > school, but to me TKD grading is TKD, Hapkido is Hapkido and Eskrima is > Eskrima. If the master feels it`s necessary to include elements of other > styles into the curriculum, they should be tested - but not separately. During > our TKD tests, I sometimes require my students to demonstrate and explain > basic joint locks, but I don`t require them to have, say, green belt in HKD > (although some of them do...). Again, this is only IMVHO. > Yes, but do you have separate belts in each? I was under the understanding that kyukido consists of a combination of arts. All of which should be worked into one class. We do have a separate class in judo on teusday nites. I am beginning to think we should in hapkido as well. All we have been doing lately is practice tkd. I think we've only practice hapkido twice this month and only the basic three. To tell u the truth, I've gotten more hapkido out of J. Pellegrini that I've gotten out of my own school from one seminar. Donna - -- NO!! My cycle doesn't leak! It marks it's territory. ------------------------------ From: "Vaught, Clifford (CLF N6Y2K8)" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:31:21 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: BOOKS IN KOREA ON TSD I can't say conclusively why Andrew Pratt was unable to find Tang Soo Do books in Korea, except perhaps he might try looking under Soo Bahk Do. Grandmaster Hwang Kee renamed his style Soo Bahk Do in 1957. Only recently did the U.S. Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation change the name to the U.S. Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation. Soo Bahk! Cliff Vaught ------------------------------ From: "Vaught, Clifford (CLF N6Y2K8)" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:33:00 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: CHIL SUNG FORMS Tom, Saw your question regarding the Chil Sung forms. They are not new - in fact, they are very old. They are unique to the Moo Duk Kwan however. Kang Uk Lee was one of Grandmaster Hwang Kee's earliest Dan members. The forms were introduced in the '50's as Grandmaster studied the Moo Yei Do Bo Tong Ji, however they were introduced here in the U.S. starting around 1984. I would commend to you the Grandmaster's book on the History of the Moo Duk Kwan, available from the Federation. You can also refer questions to them at headquarters@soobahkdo.com or call (888)Soo-Bahk. From a practioner's view point, the forms are wonderful, incorporating hard and soft movements from the most basic to most advanced. I know 4 of the forms and just started learning the 5th. They are challenging too! As to the movements, if you know advanced forms beyond the Nai Han Ji series, you would see the similarities. I hesitate to go on simply because I don't wish to misinform. I would definitely recommend contacting the Federation Headquarters and/or the Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) for the detail you want. Soo Bahk! Cliff Vaught ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:53:52 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Rebreakable boards d g: <> That is why it is a great training tool, teaches focus. No matter how easy the boards are to break, if they don't hit it properly it doesn't break. << I did not know though, that it came in different thicknesses.>> They look all the same, different colors. The pegs that snap into each other have varying thickness' that make them harder to break, not that they are thicker boards. << You say these are in the century catalog? I do not recall seeing them there. If I am wrong, where did you get them?>> The old type looked and was colored more like a real board. You had to slide them together from the sides. The new type (Century MA Supplies) push into each other at the "break" line, where pegs slide/snap into the other half. The back side of the board is definitely the back side, it's not reversible like the "old" style". It also has a rubber (padded) areas where your hands (palms) would be. All the edges are rounded, which helps prevent those cuts/bruises you could get kicking the edge of the board. Tang Soo! Mac Houston, Tx ------------------------------ From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:44:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Kumite/point sparring Hey Brad <> IMO, that's exactly what it is. <> Exactly. I believe most tournaments state that a point should be made with "controlled contact". We can all interprate that how we wish. <> Agreed . But I do disagree that "it's not a game of tag", that's exactly what it is. Exccessive use of contact usually results in minus points or disqualification. ME: > So it's all speed. <> Absolutely. But you have to be fast to get in the first strike/point. ME:> The easiest to score with (and judges to see) is a leading diving in backfist. <> That's my favorite weapon! I love that. In our "federation" tournaments, we can't punch to the head, so the vast majority of techniques are with kicks. ME: > They don't worry too much about defense or getting creamed, <> Absolutly. I don't think I explained really what I was thinking about clearly. My comment was meant to be more along the lines that since the first "point" that gets in the fight is stopped to check with the judges, so if you left yourself open to get in the first point, the fight stops and you don't have to worry about the other guy taking a weak backfist and countering with a rib breaking reverse punch under your punch. (actally, that could even be a good stratigy if the other guy kept hitting you in the head , hopefully he would think twice about doing it again). That kind of thing. You fight a little differently knowing the fight will be stopped than if it was a continious fight. In tournaments where groin shots are not allowed, I see fighters stand there with their legs raised and poised to kick you in the head (and they are *excellent* fighters). If the groin was open, they sure would have to think a bit more about defense and not leaving themselves so open . That kind of thing. ME: > You'd never fight like that in real life, where they might get a dinky backfist etc. in on you, but your power technique would knock them down/out. <> Dude, that because its a "point" tournament. Play. A game. A good time. Not UFC or a NHB fight. Not full contact. Controlled techniques. yada yada yada... <> Those can work too. I like quick high jab low reverse punch. Works well. <> Hey, in my old age, that's how I try to fight too. If you aren't there, how can they hit you? I also a lot of the time step in, take the kick/punch with a counter. Whenever someone punches - they leave an opening, whenever someone kicks, they leave an opening, usually whenever they block a technique, they are open somewhere else. When they switch stance, they can be off balance for a moment. ME: > Only use rear leg or hand when the opponent has been set up for it or in a > defensive manner. Otherwise, it's too slow and they can see it coming. <> We both agree here. I guess I'm not sure of the level of the student with whom I'm sharing my advice with. It may not be obvious to him, but of course once sta ted, you want to go "dugh" (you have to say that with the proper sarcastic attitude) :-) <> Great advice. I consider myself a kicker, and try to do as you say. I've *still* been bopped in the face with a backfist/jab just standing there the guy was so fast at closing the gap . I felt so stupid. Like I just stood there and let him do it. I may just have not been ready... uh.. the sun was in my eyes.... I thought I heard stop.... I didn't hear go.... my Mercury was in retrograde.... I'll have to get back later on more excuses when I can think of some... um, I mean remember them all. <> Welllll..... I agree that defense is important, but we can disagree that it is the "key". Mine and your styles and preferences must just be different. Differences are a good thing, otherwise, life would be boaring - right? IMHO <> Thanks Brad. Enjoyed it. Makes me think. Mac ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:00:48 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #425 In a message dated 8/27/99 6:12:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << A friend of mine, that goes to the same school of TDK as I do, is a semi-red belt. She is very unhappy with the way the school is being run lately. She was injured in class not long ago - >> Dear Betty, I write to you with 24 years of TKD experience, but I'm certain that injuries a re a normal part of any martial artists training. That is pretty much it; you can't learn taekwondo without both receiving and inflicting injuries. This is not a happy thought, but it is absolutely truth. The good part is that through enduring injuries one becomes mentally stronger and more patient, two qualities a martial artist needs, no? I'm actually quite surprised that your friend had made it nearly to black-belt and has sustained just this one boo-boo. This is rather exceptional in my experience. My advice: tell her to: 1. consider herself lucky (to have been hurt only once) and, 2. "get over it." Good luck. SESilz ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #426 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.