From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #438 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 3 Sept 1999 Vol 06 : Num 438 In this issue: the_dojang: MEANINGS OF SOO BAHK DO AND TANG SOO DO the_dojang: a shout out the_dojang: http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissert.htm the_dojang: the various Fist Ways the_dojang: Soo Bahk in Korea the_dojang: Re: swords, knives (digest #429) Re: the_dojang: Soo Bahk in Korea the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~750 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:28:45 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: MEANINGS OF SOO BAHK DO AND TANG SOO DO From: CBAUGHN@aol.com <> Yup, or "T'ang Hand". <> Kind of. Even though it basically means Chinese hand it can be more loosly thought of as Chinese fist. Thus, the fist in the middle of the Tang Soo Do logo. At the end of class, we all raise our right fist and shout "Tang Soo!". So that is how we usually end our messages too. (I noticed many in TKD end theirs with Pil Sung!) Mac TANG SOO! ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:44:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: a shout out > Kind of. Even though it basically means Chinese hand it can be more loosly > thought of as Chinese fist. Thus, the fist in the middle of the Tang Soo Do > logo. At the end of class, we all raise our right fist and shout "Tang Soo!". > So that is how we usually end our messages too. (I noticed many in TKD end > theirs with Pil Sung!) Right. Or Tae Kwon! In Sin Moo Hapkido you shout Sin Moo! (said shin moo!) as you enter the dojang. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissert.htm I just had the chance to print and read Andrew's dissertation on http://members.aol.com/torm1358/dissert.htm Interesting reading. Make sure to read the critique page, too. Probably best to print before reading as it is long. Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: the various Fist Ways The term/martial-art Fist Way goes by various names based on the language one speaks. Some of these are Chuan Fa, Kwon Bop, Kun Tao, Kenpo, Kempo. Does anyone know of others? Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ From: Andrew Pratt Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 14:19:33 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Soo Bahk in Korea Dear Ray, On your trip to Korea a couple of years ago, you visited various dojangs here. Did you find the Moo Duk Kwan? Can you remember where it was? Was it south of Seoul Station (Red (No.1) Line, Namyong, Blue (No. 4) Line, Sukmyong) and off a main street? I ask because that is the dojang which is near my office and I found recently. I have not been in before but, because of the Chil Sung and my own interest in seeing a manual I went in. There were only a few students, but they were friendly. Indeed, when I asked them to demonstrate the Chil Sung set, they complied. I saw, No.1 and No. 4. They looked like an interesting combination of Chinese and Japanese style movements and postures (hope that doesn't offend anyone). I could see vague similarities to the Muye Tobo T'ongji (though I still follow my previous hypothesis and think that Hwang Kee picked up the moves during his early years of study) I asked about other dojangs and they said there was only one other. They said where it was but I couldn't catch the name. They were reluctant to explain in detail so I suppose it must be out in the sticks somewhere outside Seoul. I mentioned that I had practised TKD previously but damaged my knees. Their reply was that TKD did that to people. The implication was that TSD didn't. I found this a little curious because, from the little that I know of TSD, I thought that TSD and TKD kicking styles were fairly similar. As to manuals, they said that you could only get them through an instructor. I persisted and they suggested I try America (it may be that they thought I was looking for an English manual, but there were no manuals in the Dojang that I could see). Finally I asked them about weapons. They did not train in weapons in that dojang, though they did seem aware that weapon training was part of Tangsoodo. I thanked them for their help and left. Any errors are due to my limited understanding of Korean Yours, Andrew ------------------------------ From: Steven Gilmore Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:13:31 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: swords, knives (digest #429) Sorry, I've been offline for a few days while Southwestern Bell figured out how to restore my service from some storm damage... As for the questions: (a) does KSW teach knife? yes, absolutely. starting at 1st dahn. (b) is the handling the same for knife as it is for sword? not that I have observed, but my experience is quite limited with bladed weapons. (c) "I thought KSW swords were straight, double-edged..." One of the hallmarks of Korean swordsmanship is that there is no single standard. Swords, and sword techniques, were tailored to the user; in Kuk Sool I have seen straight, single-edge swords (of varying lengths); straight, double-edged swords; and curved, single-edge swords that looked very Japanese. As for the techniques: unlike Japanese technique, which was primarily double-handed, or Chinese, which was primarily single-handed, Korean sword techniques use both double- and single-handed cuts. In modern Kuk Sool, there are four principles taught: straight sword, inverted sword, double short sword, and double long sword; each principle has six hyung associated with it. The beginning sword student learns juhng guhm, or straight sword principle, using a single-edged straight practice sword called "yup sup guhm" (BTW, "straight" and "inverted" refer to the grip used, not to the blade shape). Juhng guhm combines both single and double-handed techniques, and the drawing and cutting practice employs a single-handed draw and upward cut with the blade in an initial downward position: yes, a very strong wrist is required to do not only these techniques, but all Kuk Sool techniques; that's why wrist flexibility and strength is an essential component of "mohm puhl ki" (body conditioning exercises). Sincerely, Steven Gilmore Houston, TX, USA ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Soo Bahk in Korea > Dear Ray, > > On your trip to Korea a couple of years ago, you visited various > dojangs here. Did you find the Moo Duk Kwan? Can you remember where it > was? Was it south of Seoul Station (Red (No.1) Line, Namyong, Blue (No. > 4) Line, Sukmyong) and off a main street? > > I ask because that is the dojang which is near my office and I found > recently. The MDK is near the subway stop for Sookmyung Women's University. The university is up the hill, the MDKwan is one street the other direction. A nice red brick front, three story building. Dojang on the first floor, their offices on the third, some other business on the second. There are pictures of it, outside and in, on http://www.martialartsresource.com, down near th bottom of the Korean links. Master K.Y. Seen was the instructor the several times I visited there. GM Hwang Ki's office was on the third floor, but the door was always closed. Master Seen's business card gives the address as 59-3 Nahmyoung-dong, Yongsahn-goo, Seoul 140-160. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #438 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.