From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #466 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 18 Sept 1999 Vol 06 : Num 466 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #459 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #464 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #465 the_dojang: Boxing as a martial art the_dojang: Re: Martial (or Boxing as a Martial Art) the_dojang: another final issue ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~750 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William Upton-Knittle" Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:04:20 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #459 > Unless someone can find a link from Boxing to Asia, I would say that Boxing > is not a Martial Art. Following that logic, there are an awful lot of fighting methods that would not stand up as martial arts.....you will find the term used in a number of Western and Middle Eastern handbooks and histories about the time of the Crusades. The term "martial arts" has only in recent years been narrowed to Asian arts.....I can remember when the term wasn't even used by Asian martial artists. b ------------------------------ From: TXHAPKIDO@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:51:48 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #464 In a message dated 09/18/1999 1:25:14 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The warriors of their day came to realize that ch'an or zen could help them in their fighting......if you have an absolutely clear mind when facing an opponent (NO thoughts or plans or designs....just a black mind) you can literally see what he/she is doing before you could if your mind were full of thoughts. So yes, zen practice became an oxymoron within the Japanese martial arts at that time and later spread to other countries. They really don't belong together, but the one greatly advances the abilities of the other. In fact, it makes these practices TRULY arts rather than just ways of fighting. >> Sir, you mean "blank" or "Buddha" mind, do you not? Randall ------------------------------ From: TXHAPKIDO@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:00:03 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #465 In a message dated 09/18/1999 5:59:24 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I'm looking for a Hapkido Dojang in New Zealand. A friend of mine will be there for a year and doesn't want to stop training. Is there a dojang dictionary for new zealand ? Can anyone mail me Adresses of dojang there ? >> Check the guestbook on my site; some Hapkido guy signed on recently. You can email him. Randall www.txzenshiatsu.com/hapkido ------------------------------ From: burdickd Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:14:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Boxing as a martial art David Buehrer cited Encarta as the guide to martial arts. This in itself was a mistake, but even more importantly, he believed that since there was no link between boxing and East Asia that boxing could not be a martial art. There are several things wrong with this idea: 1. There are martial arts all over the world, not just in East Asia. What about: pankration (Greece), capoeira (Brazil), zhurkane (Iran), kalaripayattu (India), etc? 2. Boxing builds great conditioning and develops skills much more useful in defending oneself than a lot of karate schools. 3. There is of course a continuous link between all arts these days. Globalization has been firmly established. Even before that, boxing went to India with Alexander the Great and Indian martial arts went to China with Buddhist missionaries. The mongols returned the favor by instructing the Europeans (albeit somewhat harshly) and the Moslems taught the crusaders a thing or two as well. Since 1600 there has been tremendous interplay. The Dutch taught East Asians about anatomy. The I-ching led to the development of binary numbers. French explorers described gongfu in the 1700s. American traders described Okinawan te in the late 1800s. The key here is not to get caught up in orientalism. Just 'cause it is from Korea doesn't mean it is wild, fantastic, scientific, secret, mysterious, or any of that crud. It is just different, and if it works, then ten years down the road a whole lot of people will be doing it, regardless of what they call their art. Take care, and don't get caught up in ancient Chinese secrets, ok? Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:40:01 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Martial (or Boxing as a Martial Art) Alain wrote: << But the fact remains that boxing is a very good method of unarmed combat and self-defense. I already mentioned Ned Beaumont's book, "Championship Streetfighting: Boxing as a Martial Art," but we can also look to Bruce Lee. Lee is still probably the most widely known and liked martial artist of all time. Well, Bruce Lee looked to western boxing and wrestling to enhance his fighting skills. Why? Because they work and are effective. So, if the most known martial artist of all time, included boxing as a martial art, and boxing indeed influenced Bruce's training and JKD, well, then wouldn't boxing be a martial art? >> I once read that there are two great "heroes" of the modern world. That even today you can do a survey about the best known martial artists of all time and the responses will almost always indicate Bruce Lee and Muhammad Ali as first and second. The order may be reversed depending on the country, but these two will usually hold the top places. Maybe boxing doesn't fit the martial arts definition by the book, but then neither does Capoiera, Sambo, American Kempo, etc. Would anyone who's seen it deny that Capoiera is in the same league with the Asian arts? When you see some true boxers (not sluggers or "Tysons"), there is as much beauty in watching the competition/match as you can see in any martial art competition. BTW, Welcome back Alain. As usual, you have a great deal to add to any discussion. Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:53:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: another final issue Ok, one last issue before leaving... Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #466 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.