From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #476 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 10 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 476 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 eskrima: More thoughts on gene pool cleansing eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #471 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:04:30 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 In a message dated 11/10/99 7:58:05 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I presume that not all people who know when they get cut go into shock and so therefore you need to be able to step deeper. Maybe animal can expand on this? But for me the use of the knife would be for immediate effect and not a long term effect as in the example. >> Difference between a slash and a stab. The tendons and ligaments that make our bodies work are like elastic bands under the skin, you cut them and they roll up. The only way they are going to be reattached is via surgery. You slash a tendon and significant control of limb or torso is removed. It may take a second for the clown to realize this, but the effect is there. You can stab someone and he can still keep coming at you because there hasn't been a shock to his RAS (reticular activating system - if I remember what RAS stands for correctly). On the other hand, as Snow and Stanton (?) showed in Handgun Stopping Power a significant amount of the effect getting hit by a bullet has is based on what the person "thinks" will happen when he is shot. So someone who believes that he will fall down and die when shot will psych himself into doing just that when - and important qualifier here - he knows he has been shot. Even when fatally hit an individual in a rage has been known to keep on attacking for 10 to 120 seconds in some cases. Even though a stab is more likely to be fatal, in order for it to be immediately effective it requires three things... placement, placement and placement. Something that in the wild whirling chaos of combat you ain't going to get unless you are really well trained -- no scratch that, experienced. Conversely, if you are standing there fat, dumb and stupid in front of your attacker pumping rounds into him or sticking him, he may be so wrapped up in what he is going to do to you that he doesn't realize what you have done to him. There is a thing called "process interuption" which simple means you put a skip in his CD. A process is a set of behaviors run on autopilot to achieve an end. Until something derails this process he's going to keep on doing it. In my books I've gone on and on about "orientation." If you don't get off the line of his orientation, he is going to keep on attacking - often even if you have killed him. I mean the guy is a walking corpse, unfortunately he's so busy attacking you he hasn't picked up his messages. Legal reasons aside, a major part of the reason I strongly advocate...no scratch that, when it comes to getting this message across I make a Marine DI look warm and fuzzy...moving off line and bolting, is IT MAKES HIM STOP AND THINK!!! The guy is lunging at you and you jet, he has to stop attacking and reorient before he attacks again. Most humans when they attack are not like smart missiles, that no matter how you twist turn or run they stay on target. They are artillary. That shell missed, readjust and fire another one. He may want to turn around and fire another round, but when he tries, he's going to discover that you gave him a flat tire. Hard to get that 155 Howitzer moving with that new condition. If I insist on staying in the dude's face, he isn't going to realize that I got a piece out of him. It's only when I buy some space that nimrod the maginficant is going to catch on that things aren't quite kosher. Things like his entire side not working...uh Hoston, I think we got a problem. Once he realizes he is seriously hurt, he's gonna stop. The few people who won't are so small in number as to be stastically insignificant. Unless you are in a job where you deal with such nutcases, worry more about being hit by lightening. I know people like to pop off with the "Well what if he's got me cornered?" Is it not the FMA that has given us the Male Triangle? Even standing in a corner, there are three points, he only occupies one. You can escape by V'ing off to either side. As you pass with a slash, no matter where you hit, you are going to open him up. Keep on going. And yeah, unless he is going to attack the wall, he will have to turn to reorient on you. That is when he will realize he is hurting. Once he catches on to that, his attack mode goes off. ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:08:59 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 In a message dated 11/10/99 7:58:05 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << for some reason the legal folks here frown upon people who decide to defend themselves.... >> Because next to SODDI (Some Other Dude Did It), claiming it was self-defense is the favorite ploy of sleaze buckets when they are caught. Realize that 99% of the time most self-defense claims are BS. Yeah the guy tried to rip me off in a drug deal so I shot him...that's self-defense right? ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:10:18 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 In a message dated 11/10/99 7:58:05 AM Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Nasty nasty. I can see why it was given as an example of excessive force. Now I'm curious about where the name came from... >> according to Urban Legend (in California at least) it came from what the cops were doing to the peace loving rioters in Berkeley ------------------------------ From: "raleigh adams" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:49:00 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 ..police fired 41 shots and only 19 hit the suspect......dont know >about you folks,but i dont like those stats......in fact, it makes me feel >sorry for innocent bystanders that have to share space with them....these >shots were not fired at any long distance either.....sleep well and dream >sweet dreams about your leo's protecting you and yours......ciao > I think there is a real problem here for sure,,,,never having been to NY I can't comment much on their training or lack of it,,,although i certainly do know they have been quite corrupt in the past,,,etc.....I can tell you that here in Sacramento, Ca every Deputy has to firearms qualify four times a year ,,,, no exceptions,,,,,shooting is done from the three yard line to the 25 yd line,,,barricade position,,,kneeling,,,prone,,shotgun ,weak hand only etc,,,,I have just spent the last week training with SED,,,,(SWAT) in diverse situations utilizing live fire,,and can tell you,,,the training is rigorous,and no allowances are accepted for error,,an enormous amount of training is spent in this dept on training,,,maybe other places don't place an emphasis on training til it hurts,,,but this county does,,,Im proud to be part of a "family" that trains hard,,and works hard to do a good job for the community.....BTW....I do my best to present Eskrima training to as many of the troops that I can,,,so there are at least a few that have some familiarity with the art...Raleigh Adams ------------------------------ From: Kevin Kirk Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:00:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: More thoughts on gene pool cleansing I think this talk of who to take out of the gene pool is just wishful thinking. If you are faced with someone who is obviously intent on attacking, possibly willing to kill you, the last thing on your mind will be "Mmmm, should I kill this guy or not?" You are going into an instinctual survival mode, the adrenaline will be pumping, and your only actions will be limited to saving yourself. Maybe, if you do get the upper hand you can make such a decision but by then, if you are truly in control of the situation, killing will land you a murder charge. If you are confronted by three guys in a dark alley, are you going to stand there and form a strategy - "I think I'll maim the guy with the stick, knock out the guy with the chain, and kill the guy with the knife." Are all of you such great martial artists that you can pull this off? This is such a high level of expertise everyone knows only Bruce Lee could pull that off :-) - -Kevin ------------------------------ From: "Shawn Albert" Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:49:16 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #471 Hello. I'd like to comment on this here. I think Patrick does have a good point. I don't think he was advocating a 'vigilante' stance. It seems to me he was being philosophical about this sort of thing. Think very hard about it. If some scumbag comes at you with a knife or gun intent on killing you, or someone you love, are you gonna just stand there and let them do it? Another thing, one thing I have never understood is the attitude that we are no better than the scumbag who attacks someone if we do the same thing he does. I think there's a BIG difference. If someone attacks you for no reason then he is the one doing something wrong. If you in turn do to him what he intended to do to you, strictly in self-defense, then you are doing it for a good reason, as opposed to the attacker who is doing it for no good reason. Now, if someone attacks you, and you, say, break his leg, and he can no longer attack you, then any violence against him on your part would then be wrong and unjustified, but if he continues to attack, say, trying to shoot you, then you have no choice but to continue to do what is necessary to stop him. I think the attitude that we are no better than the scumbag if we use his methods is just a way of keeping people from really defending themselves. Perhaps we should all just be polite little lambs and give up our weapons, because after all we don't want to offend some scumbag who is intent on attacking us; Gee, God forbid that we have a right to live our life in peace. Granted, it is a fine line between right and wrong in a lot of situations, but let's be real, I'm not gonna intentionally commit suicide by allowing some scumbag to knife or shoot me to death. If I'm attacked, and I am able to do so, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to win, including knifing or shooting him. If I can just cut him, and escape, great, I'll be happy with that. Or if I can talk him out of it, even better, but if not, then I'm gonna make sure he is no position to continue to attack me. I wouldn't kill unless absolutely necessary, but I may not always have the luxury of not having to make that choice. I hope I never see that day, but the world is a dangerous place, and while there are many places to live that are pretty safe, (including where I live, though there are fights, stabbings, etc.) there is no place that is absolutely immune to violence. We can survive, or die. That simple. Shawn Albert shawn86@eudoramail.com >>From: "Patrick Christian" >>Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:56:53 -0500 >>Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #469 >> >>Here's an rough opinion that I haven't seen in regards to knife defense: If >>a person attacks you with intent to kill; isn't it our duty as trained >>personnel to take the person out of the gene pool as it were? I'm thinking >>with regards to the next person that may be attacked by this nutcase. >> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:06:14 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #475 In a message dated 11/10/99 6:58:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << << what exactly is a berkley stomp? >> >Where you take the head of a downed opponent, put his open mouth up onto the >curb and then kick the back of his head. It busts jaw and teeth. It's brutal >move to say the least and no where legal or justifiable. ....called "curbing" up here in the Great Northwet. It doesn't just bust teeth and jaws. It can (and has) caused death. If you do this the justice system will drop an enormous hammer on you. And you will deserve it. >> there's a very graph scene in the movie american history x where the protaganist does this very thing to someone trying to jack his car -- he's sent up for muder or manslaughter steve ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:12:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #476 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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