From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #502 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 14 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 502 In this issue: the_dojang: Full contact Sparring the_dojang: Full contact fighting [none] the_dojang: RE: Time for Research the_dojang: Re: Two arts at a time the_dojang: Re: Airborn the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #501 the_dojang: Hapkido forms the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~775 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Joshua Vagi Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:42:44 +1000 Subject: the_dojang: Full contact Sparring Kumusta ka With full contact Karate - do / jutsu or other styles they do alot of body conditioning making the body harder to accept the full contact blows from other fighters. I respect full contact styles because it takes years to get in that sort of condition. Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I know of Australian TKD they do not do any kind of body conditioning that might be also another reason why they wear the body shields to protect them because they have not had the *harder* style of conditioning on the body. Full contact is great but there is a few down falls to like more injuries then non - semi contact also there is only so many years you can keep fighting that full on because age does catch up. Paalam Michael Vagi Black Scorpion Arnis Newcastle, Australia *Fight if you can but never quit* ------------------------------ From: Dave Steffen Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Subject: the_dojang: Full contact fighting > From: "Christopher Spiller" > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:20:28 PDT > Subject: the_dojang: Full contact fighting > > << Kyokushinkai, for example. But It's my understanding that they DO > NOT use protective gear. Now THAT is full contact! Actually, if > you're going to fight full contact you might as well fight full > contact.>>> > > >TKD requires the protective gear to prevent more serious injuries > >>and death. Due to continued refinement of TKD techniques, its > >kicks >are producing injuries and every once in a while a death > >from >sparring. The protective gear only spreads the energy from > >the >impact out over a larger area. Ribs definitely can and do > >get >broken through the chest protectors. When other styles of > >martial >arts reach a point were their techniques are strong > >enough to >regularly injury the competitors, I suspect they will > >invest in >protective gear too. > > >Andy Just a point - I've heard this kind of argument (propaganda?) from a lot of TKD people, and it's just wrong. Yes, TKD can generate a lot of power. So can the Kyuk Shin and Enshin people (I've worked out with some of them). Koncho Nonomiya can break 4 baseball bats with a shin kick - that qualifies in my book. ;-) Full contact, no pads sparring is just a different kind of think from what TKD people do. The Enshin people I know are very aware that every time they get in the ring, they can get very badly hurt. They don't do this lightly, or often - typically only once per year, and the rest of the year they do nothing but train for that fight. Compare this to WTF-style sparring (full contact _with_ pads), where one fights many times per year (regionals, nationals, etc etc) -- people typically don't get hurt much, because of both the pads and the restrictive rules. Or ITF-style fighting, which is light contact with pads, where (in theory) people don't get hurt at all. The reason people don't die in the Sabaki every year is that A) there are a small number of competitors, and B) they're all excellent. Anybody who doesn't belong there is quickly eliminated in the qualification rounds - usually without serious injury. After that, you've got competitors who are _really_, _really_ skilled. Very few blows land cleanly - the fighters are usually too skilled (and too cautious!) to allow that. My point is, that people shouldn't get too egotistical about TKD's power (as compared to Karate power) because "we need pads for full contact and the Karate guys don't". > This danger was kind of my point reharding full contact. No one > disagrees that TKD techniques generate an incredible amount of > power. I just don't know that we should be using them on live > targets. Using a hogu can be looked at (by certain parties) like > using a safety helmet - if it's necessary maybe we should rethink > the behavior we're engaging in. Right. Exactly. Yes. The Enshin fighters are all young, strong, and extremely skilled. They don't sell Enshin classes to the masses by advertising "You will be a Sabaki champion", because only the top 5% would ever consider getting in the ring -- and even fewer do it twice! Full-contact-no-pads is for the elite - explicitly! > Again, the point was to question whether or not full contact > competition is good in and of itself. It is _very_ good... _for those who are ready for it_. I would _never_ claim that full contact is benificial for the general martial arts student. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: "kadin goldberg" Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:52:11 MDT Subject: [none] Chris wrote: "By the way does anyone think that full contact in and of itself helps promote TKD? Boxing is full contact and doesn't seem to be that popular, at least to me." Chris, may be not to you but obviously Boxing is quite a bit more popular than TKD... It is on Telavision about every night and TKD is on about 1 time a year. Not that popularity matters at all but boxing is more popular than TKD. one and only, Kadin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Dave Steffen Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Subject: the_dojang: RE: Time for Research > From: Don.Hahn@phs.com > Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:30:40 -0700 > Subject: the_dojang: RE: Time for Research > >>Just wondering, I don't have much time for research. > If you don't have time, I would suggest training on the mat versus > wondering about lineage. Maybe he doesn't have time for research _because_ he's spending time on the mat? ;-) ;-) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: WojoSG@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:18:12 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Two arts at a time Please pardon me if I am a couple of days behind, I'm just catching up. It is my opinion and just about everyone else that I have talked to that one should become proficient in one system before branching out and training in some other art. Proficient to me means Black Belt. I'm not there yet, but I'm testing for red belt (3rd Gup TKD) next week. If you take multiple arts simultaneously at a beginners level, you will probably get them mixed up. I have seen the look given by my instructor to another student who started doing some strange stuff while we were supposed to be performing TaeGeuk forms. Let me just say it will be a while until I feel comfortable enough with TKD to start practicing some other art. Pil Seung Stan Wojcoski ------------------------------ From: WojoSG@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:29:39 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Airborn Wait! There is a way to change direction while in the air.... It can happen, but you need something to bounce off of. (go ahead and groan) Stan Wojcoski ------------------------------ From: GIJo66286@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:54:32 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #501 Hi I am looking for some inspriational quotes and poems...... If anyone has some I would sincerly appreciate it if you could send them to me! Thanks ------------------------------ From: Andrew Pratt Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:55:55 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido forms Dear Mark, your wrote: >> The elements that are eliminated for traditional Hapkido are forms, stances, and high kicks..in place of those Master P. has added JKD trapping concepts, << I did not think Hapkido had forms. The closest I learned were a short set of no more than five moves in Chont'ong (traditional) Hapkido, and they had no relation to practical techniques. I agree with our comments about high/jumping kicks. Yours, Andrew ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #502 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.