From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #504 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 15 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 504 In this issue: the_dojang: Boxing vs TKD the_dojang: ICHF in WSJ ? the_dojang: Re: Full Contact #502 the_dojang: Full contact the_dojang: Re: Hapkido forms the_dojang: Contact during sparring the_dojang: Re: finding MA in a town that has none the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~775 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:40:25 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Boxing vs TKD Kadin wrote: << obviously Boxing is quite a bit more popular than TKD... It is on Telavision about every night and TKD is on about 1 time a year. Not that popularity matters at all but boxing is more popular than TKD. >> Not totally sure I'd agree that boxing is more popular just because it's on TV. It's been on TV for something like 50 years. People know it and are comfortable with it. As a different way of looking at popularity, in the early 60's, NASCAR auto racing was the #1 spectator sport in the country. Sold the most tickets, had more fans than you would've believed back then. They couldn't get races on TV except for the Indy 500. Look at NASCAR today... you don't have to miss a weekend of racing even if you stay home. IMHO, the popularity of TKD competition is a fact. The difficulty is in marketing and convincing those in charge of TV productions that the popularity is there and the money will follow. BTW, I DO NOT include the hokey shows that we've seen on PPV in the same category with popular TKD competition. But, if you ever get a chance to see the video of the '97 World Cup with Michael Weintraub doing the commentary, you'll see just how exciting real competition can be when it's presented well. $.02 worth. Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: ICHF in WSJ ? Was the ICHF just written up in the Wall Street Journal? If so, anyone know which day? Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ From: "Aaron Harmon" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:26:45 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Full Contact #502 Also as far as full contact goes check this out: http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/may_96/jordan2.htm it seems that these folk did a survey on boxers to compare the intensity and frequency of their sparring matches with their loss of certain mental faculties. It seems that frequent, high-contact sparring hurts your brain. They mention that it is probably the frequent head contact. And since I suspect that most of us want to have most of our faculties when we are older, high-contact sparring may not be for everyone. Hmmm... Aaron Harmon The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat. -- Lily Tomlin ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:46:30 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Full contact Just thought I'd jump back into this can of worms... >With full contact Karate - do / jutsu or other styles they do alot >of body >conditioning making the body harder to accept the full >contact blows from >other fighters. I respect full contact styles >because it takes years to >get in that sort of condition. >Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I know of Australian >TKD >they do not do any kind of body conditioning that might be also >another >reason why they wear the body shields to protect them >because they have >not had the *harder* style of conditioning on the >body. I don't know about Australia but here in the States this does seem to be the case. When I was training with a WTF Korean Master we did NO body conditioning whatsoever. My ITF instructor has his students do forging of attacking and blocking tools, but nothing like the body tougheing things that I've seen Kyokushinkai, Uechi Ryu, and some Kung-Fu people do. >Paalam >Michael Vagi >Black Scorpion Arnis Newcastle, Australia - ------------------------------ >>From: "Christopher Spiller" >>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:20:28 PDT >> Subject: the_dojang: Full contact fighting >> >> <<> Kyokushinkai, for example. But It's my understanding that they DO >> NOT use protective gear. Now THAT is full contact! Actually, if >> you're going to fight full contact you might as well fight full >> contact.>>> >> >> >TKD requires the protective gear to prevent more serious injuries >> >>and death. Due to continued refinement of TKD techniques, its >> >kicks >are producing injuries and every once in a while a death >> >from >sparring. The protective gear only spreads the energy from >> >the >impact out over a larger area. Ribs definitely can and do >> >get >broken through the chest protectors. When other styles of >> >martial >arts reach a point were their techniques are strong >> >enough to >regularly injury the competitors, I suspect they will >> >invest in >protective gear too. >> >> >Andy >Just a point - I've heard this kind of argument (propaganda?) from a >lot of TKD people, and it's just wrong. Yes, TKD can generate a lot >of power. So can the Kyuk Shin and Enshin people (I've worked out >with some of them). Koncho Nonomiya can break 4 baseball bats with a >shin kick - that qualifies in my book. ;-) >Full contact, no pads sparring is just a different kind of think >from what TKD people do. The Enshin people I know are very aware that >every time they get in the ring, they can get very badly hurt. They >don't do this lightly, or often - typically only once per year, and >the rest of the year they do nothing but train for that fight. I've seen these people on tape. They are GOOD. >Compare this to WTF-style sparring (full contact _with_ pads), where >one fights many times per year (regionals, nationals, etc etc) -- >people typically don't get hurt much, because of both the pads and >the restrictive rules. Or ITF-style fighting, which is light contact >with pads, where (in theory) people don't get hurt at all. >The reason people don't die in the Sabaki every year is that A) >there are >a small number of competitors, and B) they're all >excellent. Anybody who doesn't belong there is quickly eliminated in >the qualification rounds - usually without serious injury. After >that, you've got competitors who are _really_, _really_ skilled. >Very few blows land cleanly - the fighters are usually too skilled >(and too cautious!) to allow that. This isn't a "quality over quantity" thing is it ;-) >My point is, that people shouldn't get too egotistical about TKD's >power (as compared to Karate power) because "we need pads for full >contact and the Karate guys don't". Indeed. >Right. Exactly. Yes. The Enshin fighters are all young, strong, and >extremely skilled. They don't sell Enshin classes to the masses by >advertising "You will be a Sabaki champion", because only the top 5% >would ever consider getting in the ring -- and even fewer do it >twice! Full-contact-no-pads is for the elite - explicitly! That's my point. Taekwon-Do IS more geared to the public, it seems. But I don't know if the average Joe is up to getting his clocked cleaned (or doing it to someone else) every few months in tournaments. Yeah, yeah, it's a good motivator NOT to get hit. >It is _very_ good... _for those who are ready for it_. I would >_never_ claim that full contact is benificial for the general >martial arts student. >Dave Steffen This is an excellent distinction. >>Chris wrote: >>"By the way does anyone think that full contact in and of itself >>helps >>promote TKD? Boxing is full contact and doesn't seem to be >>that popular, >>at >>least to me." >Chris, may be not to you but obviously Boxing is quite a bit more >popular >than TKD... It is on Telavision about every night and TKD is >on about 1 >time a year. Not that popularity matters at all but >boxing is more >popular than TKD. >one and only, >Kadin Let me clarify here: Boxing is more popular with the general public to WATCH but is it more popular as a prticipation sport? I don't really know, but if people are trying to promote TKD to the public (which I would argue is a safe bet) then this is something that should be considered. Taekwon, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:09:38 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido forms On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 ABurrese@aol.com wrote: 23:09:05 EDT >Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido forms > >I can not speak for all KHF schools in Korea, but mine practiced Hyungs as >well as kicking, falls, joint locks, throws, weapons, etc.... > Alain. Could you please tell me what the "Americanized" names of these Hapkido forms were? Thanks. Dana ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:08:21 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Contact during sparring Tommy Hayes wrote: >We just had someone join our dojang who originally >trained in >Canada, and >he is more used to point sparring, where all >he's >looking for is the one >quick hit. I've noticed differences in >our techniques when sparring, where >he is concentrating much more on >speed rather than technique. For example, >for a hook kick, I would >turn my hip fully in order to connect properly. >If I miss, I can >always follow it up with some reverse technique >(hopefully!). >However, this new guy would throw the same hook kick at a 45 >degree >angle, and even though it comes out slightly faster, there is not > >half as much power in it. And seeing as he's just looking for the >quick >point, that's all that counts. Thing is, it almost becomes like >a game of >'tag', where the purpose is just to touch the opponent >through their >guard. (The proof that the guy is used to point >sparring is that when he >scores a point against you he still has a >habit of turning around and >walking away! This usually leaves the >opponent just stopping short of >automatically side kicking what is >now his back in bewilderment! Of >course, it just takes time to get >used to different ways - if I went to >his dojang I'm sure people >would be looking at me in bewilderment too!) 1)Take the time to explain "the rules" of your dojang to him the next time you spar. 2)Remind him the first time he does the "turn around and walk away" thing. 3)If he does it a second time a light tap to the posterior with a front kick should remind him ;-) Remember, the point is education not (necessarily) intimidation. >Obviously, different techniques are appropriate in different >situations, >but I still don't feel entirely comfortable incorporating >his sparring >style into mine, even for point sparring. Is it possible >to develop >'traditional' techniques, such as full hip hook kick, to >the extent of >being able to use it in point sparring? Or am I better >off having one >'set' of techniques for continuos and another set for >point scoring? It is possible to use traditional techniques in point sparring. However, you'll have to develop speed quite a bit. When most people say this they mean "build speed by modifying the techniques." I DO NOT. If you're going to use traditional techniques with proper body mechanics (i.e., the way you've been taught) use them but increase the speed of the actual technique. This is possible but takes a bit of effort. Taekwon, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Paul Rogers Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:43:37 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: finding MA in a town that has none >> From: "kadin goldberg" Hello everyone, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions... I am 15 years old and want to be in a type of martial arts... the only problem is that I live in a town that does not have any place to learn. Closest place is about 60 minutes away and I am not sure if the parents would drive me there how ever many times I have the class. Anything would be great. << This is a tough one. At the risk of stereotyping, you might try the Chinese restaurants in the area, and ask the only if any practices or teaches in the area. Also, if you have an acupuncturist or energy healing person in your town, you might get lucky and find that they also know a martial art such as Tai Chi... Best of luck... Paul Rogers, Round Rock, TX ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #504 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.