From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #516 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 20 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 516 In this issue: Re: the_dojang: Chi Na the_dojang: Re: from the deeply moved Vlado the_dojang: Re: sparring vs. real life [none] the_dojang: Teaching & Learning the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #515 the_dojang: Moon Moo the_dojang: RE: HKD Techniques the_dojang: Question the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~775 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 06:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Chi Na > I'm just curious if anyone knows if it is similar to the joint locks in > Hapkido. There are only so many ways to twist a joint. I figure any and > every opportunity to train with different people can be good, especially here > where I don't have a lot of choices, and can't travel right now. So I look > forward to it, and will let you know what I learn as well. Yes, from what I've seen of Chin Na, the locks and pain compliance holds are somewhat similar to Hapkido's. But I did see some in Chin Na that I hadn't experienced in Hapkido or Jujutsu. Chin Na is more a subset of techniques rather than a complete style, of least that is the way it was explained to me by Wing Lam (a local 'Kung fu' instructor). I think you'd enjoy the seminar... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Dale G. Gutt" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:31:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: from the deeply moved Vlado From: "Vlado" > As to the books: well, I live in Bulgaria and the sad reality is > that almost no books of this kind can be found around. Fortunately, I > just managed to find Sun Tzu's "The Art of War". Medical books, I admit, > are in abundance but martial arts books are almost out of the question. Vlado, Don't be so quick to rule out the medical books. These are a great source of learning for the martial artist as well. I feel that every martial artist should have at least one good medical book (something on anatomy) in their personal library. Studying how the body is put together and where the location of major/minor muscle groups is necessary, to understand what happens when they are struck (with a hand, foot, etc). It is also good for you to know how you are put together and will help in your stretching and physical conditioning, once you get back up and training again. Give that a shot and see if it helps. Regards, Dale Gutt ------------------------------ From: "Alexander, Stephen (Nexfor)" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:47:02 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Re: sparring vs. real life Someone wrote: > You couldn't really use sparring in a self defense situation. well you could > but it wouldn't seem as realistic. Then Ray wrote: >>How so? Sparring is kicking, punching, and trying to not get kicked and punched. Seems like good components of self-defense to me, and it has worked well for a great many...<< Now I write... Does anyone have any experiences they can relate where they have used their TKD style in a REAL self defense situation?? I mean where you where attacked on the street or whatever and you used TKD kicks and punches and fighting style and they were effective? Did any of these situations go to the ground? what did you find lacking in your training.. if anything? What would you do different? Curious. Steve Alexander Student of the Martial Arts. War never decides who is right, only who is left. ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@carl.org Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:00:21 -0600 Subject: [none] Re: using corners/sides \ From: "Emil J. Fisk" \ \ I'd still like to hear more ideas about using corners and sides to your \ advantage in tournament sparring. I would like to thank Mark, Ray, and \ Daniel to start with, and I will use your ideas in class. Well, defensivly, if someone is coming at you, try not to respond by backing up. Instead step to the side, or corner out, or corner in (my favorite). Unless someone has trained otherwise, they tend to think in straight lines (forward/back), and stepping out of the box will really throw them for a loop. Also, countering an attack with an attack (i.e., moving into them when they move into you) can mess with someone's mind. - ---- Re: New black belts \ From: "Emil J. Fisk" \ \ What I see as the main problem is that although I was teaching them when \ they were only 7th or 6th gup, they are now blackbelts (1st dan). As soon \ as they got their dan ranks last year, they suddenly thought that they were \ experts in the arts and knew everything that I did. I know that I can still \ learn from my students, as long as they have something well-thought out and \ intelligent to say, but I'm not hearing anything yet. So far, most \ recommendations I give are just ignored. I tell our instructor about it, \ and he'll start talking to them, but then they'll ignore him as well after \ a while. \ \ I guess it's people like this that just become stagnant in their training. \ Although they keep on training, they don't think they can learn anything \ new, and that's their first problem. I've got a lot to teach them, and my \ instructor has got a lot to teach me, and even after being a dan rank for 6 \ years, I still consider myself a student first. My junior blackbelts, \ however, already think they know everything, and are capable of doing \ everything. They don't seem to listen to logic either as I've tried that \ approach thousands of times within the past 10 months, so what I need now \ is a way to put them in their place. Make them realize exactly how little \ they know and how far they have to go. I wouldn't try to put them "in their place". Every now and then my instructor makes a point of telling us that if we (the students) ever think we know everything there is to know, that we should stop coming to his class. He also makes a point of telling us that he doesn't know everything there is to know. At his level it isn't often that he learns something new, but he is still learning. If the said students where acting like they knew everything (despite attempts to teach them otherwise), I'd send them off to work with eachother, and I'd go and teach students who wanted to learn (or if that was covered by another black belt, I'd ask the instructor for instruction). - -David "The light is reached not by turning back from the darkness, but by going through it." ------------------------------ From: "Mark M. Smith" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:30:39 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Teaching & Learning Rick: ><< Finally, remember it is an instructor's job to teach and and student's job > to learn. When it seems your students are not listening to you, it is not > productive to focus on their lack of attention, rather figure out how you > can present the lesson in a different manner so that they have no choice > but to learn. > > Mark M. Smith >> > >Mark, I woudl just like to say, this last paragraph has helped me >emensily. Personaly as of late I get frusterated as to why the student >body is not leraning what is being presented,,,, Thanks,,, > >Rick B. I feel the same way, often! Actually, when I stand back and look at myself I am glad I get frustrated. The day I do not get frustrated teaching is the day I know i do not really care anymore. This lesson is one the the things I keep in the back of my mind to try to stay on the road. I recently read a metaphor (on a totally different subject) about driving. The metaphor said, "driving is not about pointing the car down the road, it is about making the many small corrections that are constantly needed to keep the car on the road." I think this applies well to TKD and teaching TKD. I am always trying to find the corrections I need to make to keep my students learning. Knowing how to teach is not a static activity. Do this drill, learn this technique, etc. Teaching is dynamic, how can I adjust my drills to reach this student, this class. Teaching is not about knowing it is about doing. On a side note, I think this applies to studing TKD as well. We all know the people who receive their black belts and then drift away from TKD. Why? I think it is because they have always thought of TKD as a learning a certain set of techniques. They drove their car to the end of the road, so why drive any more? For me it is the driving, the experience of practicing TKD, that is at the heart of TKD. It is like saying, I saw the foliage last year, why do I need to drive up to NH to see the foliage this year? If you need to ask the question, you are missing the point. This is one of the reasons I try and deemphasize the goal of getting a black belt. For many people getting a black belt is their only goal from the moment they walk into a dojang. Once they reach this goal, they have nothing to keep them in TKD. If a student walks in the school and says, "I want to earn a black belt." I say, "Great, I can help you do that." I then spend the next 3-5 years teaching them telling them why the journey is more important than the destination. For me the measure of my success is not how many students my school has, but how many people have made TKD a part of their life. If I was really lucky, one day my school would have as many Dan ranks as Kup ranks. Respectfully, Mark M. Smith Merrimack, NH email: msmith@p2software.com ------------------------------ From: d.d.parker@juno.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:02:39 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #515 Alain, Before starting my studies of Taekwondo, I had experience in two seperate Chinese arts which both had Chi Na techniques. From what I understand, Chi Na isn't a "system" unto itself, but a category of techniques which involve the manipulation of the bodies joints. I don't know much about Hapkido, but as you said, a joint can only be twisted, pulled or compressed in so many ways before techniques become redundant, so I can't imagine there being too much difference. The class sounds like fun! Cheers, Daniel ------------------------------ From: Mo Smith Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Moon Moo I'm trying to locate instructions for the form Moon Moo. It's a fairly high level form and I'm sure it's obscure. My instructor saw somebody do it in a competition once and wants to learn it. Anybody know anything about this form? Mo ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Don.Hahn@phs.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:38:59 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE: HKD Techniques >>I wouldn't say that Combat Hapkido has less techniques than any other version of hapkido. On the other hand, I wouldn't say it has more, either.<< As I said, I would say with certainty that tradtional HKD has far more techniques than taught at most HKD schools, anywhere, and by far over combat style. How many knife defense do you teach/learn? I'm not talking variation of stance from one to another, but different techniques? Traditional HKD has close to a 100, strike, joint lock, throw, and kicks against various attacks. When I first learned this, I was taught about 10 and thought nothing of it. When asked by my GM what I learned, I replied, he smiled and walked away. The next day I started re learning, way past #10. ------------------------------ From: "Michelle Lyons" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:18:40 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Question I've got a question about doing forms in tournaments. There is a mini-tournament this weekend not too far from the place that I train. I recently passed my purple-trim belt test and recently learned Palgwe & Taegeuk Yuk chung. As I was practicing the two forms, I asked a friend which one would be better to do at the tournament. She said Palgwe. Everyone that I know always do Palgwes. Not that it's bad, but you see the same form over and over. The last two tournaments I went to (which was awhile ago), I did Taegeuk and I was the only one out of 15 plus participants in my division who did it. I love to do Taeguek forms more so than Palgwe. I took first in both. Now that I'm in the advanced class, I will be competing against Brown & Red belts. Brown & Red belt have impressive Palgwes to do while Yuk Chung doesn't seem to be. It has only 19 moves. Taegeuk with 23 moves. I was also told that most black belt judges are not too familiar with Taeguek forms. Why? Arent' Palgwes and Taegueks taught in all Tae Kwon Do Schools? What, exactly is the big difference? If anyone out there in email land could educate me a little more in this, I would be most greatful. I personally do not mind placing at all in the tournament, all I can do is my best at whichever one it will be (Palgwe or Taeguek), and be happy with the fact that I participated in the event. Any advice, would sure help me out! ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #516 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.