From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #517 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 20 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 517 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Honorary Ranks the_dojang: BB newbies the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #516 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #513 Re: the_dojang: Question Re: the_dojang: Re: sparring vs. real life the_dojang: Emil's dan math. the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #513 the_dojang: Moon Moo the_dojang: My site the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~775 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:08:42 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Honorary Ranks Emil wrote: << While we're on about mixing ranks for tournaments, what do you all think about giving honorary ranks? Sometimes it cheeses me off. Does this only happen in TKD? >> Maybe the pioneers took it from the academic practice of giving honorary degrees and maybe the thought was if they're teachers and we're teachers, and they can give honorary degrees, why can't we? Then the "degree" translates into rank in martial arts, and there you go. Actually, the one I really don't like is the "committee" that equals 20th dan allowing people to "test" for just about any rank they want. I do know personally of a Tai Chi practitioner who hadn't studied or practiced for about 12 years being advanced from 1st black sash to Grandmaster status -- which sounded pretty hokey to me for Tai Chi anyway -- because he was a friend of one of the guys on the committee. Go figure. Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:27:26 PDT Subject: the_dojang: BB newbies Darlene wrote: >What sort of routines or ceremonies do you have when a student >receives >their 1st dan black belt? After the promotional test the instructor will give a brief overview of how he thought the test went, he'll point out the strengths of the candidate and give the audience (friends, family, and fellow students) some background on the new BB's training history. Then they are presented with a temporary BB, permanent being awarded after privately going over all the testing areas with the student. >Do you have a process to help "humble" your new black belts, so they >don't >continue to think they're so "hot" now that they wear a black >belt? >Anything for red belts, too? The thing that humbles the new BB the most is THE TEST! It's quite long: All the chang hun patterns up to Choong Mu (9 plus saju chirigi and saju makgi); 3-, 2-, and 1-step sparring; semi-free sparring; free-sparring; free-sparring 2 opponents; breaking (a power break with a foot technique, a power break with a hand technique, and a technical break with an advance kick); demonstration of hosinsool (self defense); a selection of hand and foot techniques from all previous ranks; an oral exam; a written thesis. It was quite a long evening! Humbling the red belts usually consists in having them spar the black belts ;-). Humbling BB's after their promotion usually consists in having a senior BB explain things to them (why we have ettiquette, proper courtesy to the instructor, etc.). This usually falls to me because I'm not there on a regular basis anymore. Familiarity breeds contempt sometimes so when I'm home on break I'm actually something of an "outsider". >For new red belts, they start learning about teaching, and have to >lead >the class in warm-up exercises. We have the red belts leading warm ups on occasion and also assisting with lower ranking students. When we break down into groups by rank for pattern instruction, for example, they'll get the yellow belts to teach. After that one of the BB's or the instructor will come by and see what the results are and if the lower ranks need correction (this critiques the red belt's knowledge as well). >Any other routines or regular practices for rank milestones? Three years ago my instructor celebrated 25 years in TKD. We (the BB's) took him and his wife (also a black belt and instructor) out to dinner, gave them a gift (a really nice crystal lamp), and several of us made brief speaches about how much we appreciate them as people and as instructors. The nice thing was that it was all from the heart and nobody felt like they HAD to do this, we all wanted to. Taekwon, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Pfeifer, Steven" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:30:57 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #516 Try this web site for written descriptions of all of the Chang Hon forms: http://webpages.marshall.edu/~shroyer1/tkd/ If it isn't there or the page is gone (I haven't checked for a while), let me know and I can email you the text file that I have. Steve - -> - -> From: Mo Smith - -> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:33:04 -0700 (PDT) - -> Subject: the_dojang: Moon Moo - -> - -> I'm trying to locate instructions for the form Moon - -> Moo. It's a fairly high level form and I'm sure it's - -> obscure. My instructor saw somebody do it in a - -> competition once and wants to learn it. - -> - -> Anybody know anything about this form? - -> - -> Mo - -> ------------------------------ From: Kas001@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:56:42 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #513 In a message dated 10/20/99 01:41:47 AM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > OK > Lets look at this. > If you are not a tournament/sport/competition type of school and lets say > one > of your students wants to go to one and spar, and he is a blue belt with no > tournament exp. Should you as that persons instructor let that student go in > > as a blue belt when you know that all of the other blue belts has been in > many tournaments. Would this be like throwing that student into a den of > wolfs. Yes, you should let that student go in as a blue belt. There are new people entering tournaments every day. They all need to fight at their rank. Tournaments are set up by rank, not tournament experience. The students rank is supposed to represent their MA experience. At blue belt, they should at be able to defend themselves even if they are not yet skilled enough to win against a tournament regular. Look at it as a learning experience. In MA and life we all have to stretch ourselves to improve and we all have different talents. There will always be people who perform certain tasks better than we do with the same experience. The wise thing to do is to learn from those people. I don't advocate putting inexperienced white belts up against black belts, but within the ranks people who have worked hard and earned their rank should be able to handle and learn from some disparities. IMHO, Kim ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Question > I was also told that most black belt judges are not too familiar with > Taeguek forms. Why? Arent' Palgwes and Taegueks taught in all Tae Kwon Do > Schools? What, exactly is the big difference? If anyone out there in email The Palgue forms (and the Kukkiwon Dan forms) were created in ~1968 by a committee formed by the KTA. In 1972 the Palgue forms were replaced by the Taegeuk forms. The Taegeuks were also created by a committee formed by the KTA. The Palgue forms are still in use in some schools and they are still accepted by the Kukkiwon, but the preferred forms are the Taegeuks. A few schools do both. But in general, the Taegeuks are better known that the Palgues, however than may not be the case in your particular area. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: sparring vs. real life > Someone wrote: > > You couldn't really use sparring in a self defense situation. well you > > could but it wouldn't seem as realistic. > > Then Ray wrote: > >>How so? Sparring is kicking, punching, and trying to not get kicked and > punched. Seems like good components of self-defense to me, and it has > worked well for a great many...<< > > Now I write... > > Does anyone have any experiences they can relate where they have used their > TKD style in a REAL self defense situation?? I mean where you where > attacked on the street or whatever and you used TKD kicks and punches and > fighting style and they were effective? Yep, a few times. The kicks and punches worked just fine. At least well enough and long enough for me get the F out of there. One of the first things I learned in Tangsudo has worked well a couple of times. It was a double ridge hand to the sternum, dropped them flat on their back. > Did any of these situations go to the ground? No. Except for in the above. > what did you find lacking in your training.. if anything? What > would you do different? Learn to run faster... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "K. Jones" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 13:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Emil's dan math. > From: "Emil J. Fisk" > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:34:20 +0800 > Subject: the_dojang: honorary ranks *snip* > Then again, from my readings I understand that there are other arts that > have grading councils that will give someone a rank much higher than > anyone on the council. Let's say there are four people on the council, > and they all have 5th dan. Someone with 7th dan comes along and wants to > test for 8th, and the council will grant him that rank upon successful > completion of the test. I still don't see the logic in this. Who and what > gives them the right to grant that rank? There are four people, and they > each have 5th dan, so that adds up to 20th dan! Where's the math for this... oh... but wouldn't it be four people with 5th dans promoting people they dont' need to promote? The math is cute, tho. :) There is logic before Calculus... unless you used Calculus to get that answer. :) ===== K. Jones (ladytimberland@yahoo.com Yahoo! ID: LadyTimberland | AOL IM - OmegaKage IcQ - 46316779 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Chuck Sears Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:34:24 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #513 > From: ZCOMBATMA@aol.com > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:09:44 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Letting higher ranks put on a lower belt to compete > > OK > Lets look at this. > If you are not a tournament/sport/competition type of school and lets say one > of your students wants to go to one and spar, and he is a blue belt with no > tournament exp. Should you as that persons instructor let that student go in > as a blue belt when you know that all of the other blue belts has been in > many tournaments. Would this be like throwing that student into a den of > wolfs. > Absolutely he would go as a blue belt. It would be completely unethical to put him in as a lower rank. In addition, how else is he going to learn how to spar people at his own level unless he does? > ------------------------------ > > From: "Emil J. Fisk" > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:01:52 +0800 > Subject: the_dojang: using corners/sides > > I'd still like to hear more ideas about using corners and sides to your > advantage in tournament sparring. I would like to thank Mark, Ray, and > Daniel to start with, and I will use your ideas in class. I do drills where I put one student in the corner and have another attack him. The first student has to "V" up the line to avoid and counter the attack. I'm standing in back of him with a padded blocker and woe unto anyone who retreats out of the ring! :-) > > > ------------------------------ > > From: Tkdtiger@aol.com > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:09:55 EDT > Subject: the_dojang: Chiun > > For those that don't have a clue on this thread, there is a action adventure > series called "The Destroyer" written by Warren Murphy and Richard Sapir. > (allthough at some point Sapir stopped and just Murphy's name was on them)>>> > > > Sapir died - and Murphy continued and now a "committee" writes them and they are not as good as the old ones - must be written by "pale pieces of pig ears". > > Interesting note - murphy co-wrote Lethal Weapon II Hmmmm.... I hadn't heard about Sapir's death. I agree with your diagnosis of the committee efforts - Sapir must have been the one with the dry sense of humor. ------------------------------ From: Dave Steffen Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 16:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Subject: the_dojang: Moon Moo > From: Mo Smith > Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:33:04 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: the_dojang: Moon Moo > > I'm trying to locate instructions for the form Moon Moo. It's a > fairly high level form and I'm sure it's obscure. My instructor saw > somebody do it in a competition once and wants to learn it. > > Anybody know anything about this form? Moon Moo is one of the three patterns required by the ITF to test for 5th Dan. Look in any of the ITF references: the condensed encyclopedia (or even the 15 volume non-condensed version if you can find it), the video tapes, or the CD-Rom. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:57:37 EDT Subject: the_dojang: My site >>>Alain: I'd like to thank you and to express my utter admiration by your site. It is absolutely stunningly great! I haven't met such a rich source by far. Excuse me if I'm losing your time by posting just comments but I'm really grateful and felt that you might like to know it.<<< Thank you for the kind words, I am really glad you got something from my site. As soon as I get my computer working again, I have a number of things to add in the next few months including: Info on my video, a lot more books, essays I wrote on fitness topics, more articles, more on hapkido, a link to a friend who is publishing some great books on kicking, and since Shawn was in the Guiness book of world records for kicking, he knows what he is writing about. (the first of 10 books will be released soon, and the other 9 will follow in the next year or two) I'll post more about him when his site is up. So those things will be on my site shortly.... Again, Thank you very much, and I'm glad I could be of some help, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #517 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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