From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #518 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 21 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 518 In this issue: the_dojang: Small town :( the_dojang: palgue/taegeuk the_dojang: sparring vs. real life the_dojang: Books the_dojang: Re: Question (Palgwe vs Taegeuk) [none] the_dojang: RE: BB newbies the_dojang: Re: Sparring vs. real life the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~775 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "kadin goldberg" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:40:47 MDT Subject: the_dojang: Small town :( Lorraine wrote: "Kadin, if you have the opportunity to get to a local competition, do it. There was so much to see with events going on in each corner. Do you have a local community college where one might be sponsored? I think I remember so saying you live in the country area and not much is close by." :) I live in a town with 2000 people, no colleges and no MA schools. Not cool at all. I am not even sure if the city near by(within 60mi) has any colleges that have courses in Martial Arts. Plus... I am 15 and in school right now, the only time I could see is on the weekends and colleges are not open on the weekends. So pretty much all I can do is just read books, watch movies, and dream. :) One And Only, Kadin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:48:33 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: palgue/taegeuk Hi Michelle, Ditto on what Ray said regarding the palgues and taegeuks. However, if I'm not mistaken, the palgues were completely replaced and the taegeuks are now the official and only poomse for rainbow belts recognized by Kukkiwon. At one point, I had some friends that did Shotokan that started training with me. Whenever I'd do the palgue or a few of the moves in taegeuk, they'd say they had very similar sequences of moves. I think the palgue were much closer to the Shotokan forms though, and I think they might be based on the pinan set. but that is an entirely different discussion. However, some schools still teach the palgue poomse, and i've seen the differences. Here's a little chronology of my experience with the palgue poomse. When I was in Sweden, I learned the ITF hyung and palgue. It was a WTF school, but we didn't learn the taegeuk. I later moved to Korea where I just learned the taegeuk, and only at 1st and 2nd dan would you learn the palgue (4 for each belt). In Thailand, the association starts taegeuk il-jang (1) at 10th gup. So due to a shortage of poomse, at 2nd gup you learn palgue chil-jang (7), and at 1st gup you learn palgue pal-jang (8). But those are the only two palgues you'll ever need to know in Thailand. In Malaysia, we just use the taegeuks. And so far, my instructor and I seem to be the only two people that remember the palgues. When I was in the US, the dojang I went to only taught the palgues, because the instructor didn't like the taegeuks. To each his (or her) own. Sincerely, Emil Fisk ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:26:42 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: sparring vs. real life Sometimes it can be topics like these that lead people to believe that Korean martial arts, and TKD in particular, are ineffective on the street. One must remember that what it really boils down to is the person's application of what he has learned that makes an art successful or not. I believe that sparring is very useful. It teaches a person how to gauge distance, how to take a full impact, how to find targets, and how to attack those targets, among many other things. There's no doubt that sparring is one of the safest ways for one to apply what one has learned in class. I've never been in a fight, so I've never had to defend myself on the streets, but I'd like to think that I would be able to if it came to it. But so far, I think my training has allowed me to walk away from any confrontations, either by buffing up and making my opponent know that I'm not afraid, or ignoring whatever that person might be saying to me. Over the past few days I've had two students with somewhat similar problems regarding whether or not TKD was effective. One of them was a 7 year old boy who had never paid attention in class and was always playing around. One of the other assistants never bothered to find out why, and was just punishing him with squats, pushups, sitting out... I took this boy aside and asked him what the problem was. After some probing, I found out that he liked Karate better, even though he had no idea what the difference was, except for the fact that "Karate can beat bad people." So I went on to show him a few combinations of how simple blocks and kicks that he had learned could be made effective. He was much happier afterwards. As I was teaching an adult self-defense class last night, one student was thinking of changing to a karate class. Her friend is a karate instructor and had told her that karate is always practical and can beat every other martial art. What I wanted to tell her was to bring her friend over so I could give him a good whooping, but instead I gave her the usual rap. I told her that whatever art you practice does not matter, it's the way the person applies what he or she has been taught. Any style you use, whether it's karate, TKD, silat, kali, kenpo, or judo, is just a methodology for teaching. A punch is a punch, and a kick is a kick, and a wrist lock is a wrist lock. Obviously, there are many different types of punches, strikes, kicks, throws, and locks, but they're all basically the same. The only difference lies in the way that they're taught, and therefore executed. Whereas a TKD stylist might teach a roundhouse kick to be executed on a horizontal plane and parallel to the ground, a karateka might teach that same kick to come diagonally and upwards, thus lifting an opponent off the ground. You can find pros and cons in possibly every single comparable technique, but they are still just different methods of teaching a particular technique. The other difference comes in with the historical and cultural aspects of the arts, which are impossible to compare. Obviously, a hapkido stylist will be more proficient in throws and locks and have a more advanced and extensive choice in their repertoire, whereas a TKD stylist will focus on what he does best - using his legs. So everyone specializes, but that never means that one martial art is better than another. I still strongly encourage people to cross-train and be able to be effective at all ranges and have a variety of possible attacks/defenses they could use in a given situation. Sincerely, Emil Fisk ------------------------------ From: "Ray Terry" Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:00:01 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Books Forwarding. Ray Terry - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Recent Cornell East Asia Series Titles We are proud to announce the following recent titles available from the Cornell East Asia Series. Order information follows announcement of titles. FARMERS' DANCE, by Shin Kyong-nim Translated by Brother Anthony of Taize and Young-Moo Kim Shin Kyong-Nim's first volume of poems, Farmers's Dance (Nong-mu), marked a major new step in the development of modern Korean poetry when it was published in 1973. The life of Korea's oppressed rural masses had never before been highlighted in such a manner. For years, the poet had shared that life as a laborer and salesman, and the poems reflect a deep identification with classes and situations that were normally not considered suitable subjects for poetry. This volume offers a full translation of the poems of the expanded 1975 edition, making available in English for the first time one of the most influential works of modern Korean poetry. No. 105 Bilingual DapGae/CEAS Edition 1999, 212 pgs. 1-885445-05-9 $14 paper. THE PROPHET AND OTHER STORIES, by Yi Ch'ong-jun Translated by Julie Pickering Cross-section of Yi's work, including The Falconer, Footprints in the Snow, Time's Gate, and The Fire Worshippers. No. 101 1999, 208 pgs. 1-885445-61-X $22 hardcover; 1-885445-01-6 $14 paper. DESCRIPTION AND EXPLANATION IN KOREAN LINGUISTICS, edited by Ross King Papers from 9th International Conference on Korean Linguistics, 1994: ranges from phonetics and phonology to syntax and grammaticalization, and addresses important theoretical issues from a wide variety of formal frameworks. No. 98 1998, 390 pgs. 1-885445-56-3 $32 hardcover; 1-885445-98-9 $20 paper. THE EARLY LYRICS 1941-1960: Poems by So Chong Ju (Midang) Translated and Introduced by Brother Anthony of Taize Contains the complete poems of So Chong Ju's first four collections. No. 90 Bilingual DapGae/CEAS Edition 1998 304 p., 1-885445-90-3 $17 paper ORDER INFORMATION: You may order directly by fax (607-255-1388) or by writing to the Cornell East Asia Series, 140 Uris Hall, Ithaca NY 14853-7601. We also accept phone orders with a credit card (607-255-5071). Shipping is $5 for UPS or $3 for 4th class for the first book, plus $.75 for each additional book. Evangeline Ray, Publications Assistant, Cornell East Asia Series 140 Uris Hall, Ithaca, NY 14850-7601 / 607-255-5071 / fax: 607-255-1388 / ceas@cornell.edu http://www.einaudi.cornell.edu/eastasia/EastAsiaSeries.html ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 01:37:40 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Question (Palgwe vs Taegeuk) Michelle Lyons wrote: << I was also told that most black belt judges are not too familiar with Taeguek forms. Why? Arent' Palgwes and Taegueks taught in all Tae Kwon Do Schools? What, exactly is the big difference? If anyone out there in email land could educate me a little more in this, I would be most greatful. I personally do not mind placing at all in the tournament, all I can do is my best at whichever one it will be (Palgwe or Taeguek), and be happy with the fact that I participated in the event. Any advice, would sure help me out! >> The big question for you to answer is probably whether the tournament is USTU-sanctioned or not. If it is, you can bet they'll know and expect to see the Taeguek forms (and not all will have even seen Palgwes); if it isn't, especially if the flyer says "Open to all styles" or something like that, I'd say go with the one you feel most confident about. Sorry to be so ambiguous, but it's really important to know what group or federation or whatever is running the tournament before a precise answer can be given. Sally cbaughn@aol.com PS. Good luck, whichever you choose! ------------------------------ From: "Vlado" Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:30:01 PDT Subject: [none] Dale wrote: "Don't be so quick to rule out the medical books. These are agreat source of learning for the martial artist as well. I feel thatevery martial artist should have at least one good medical book(something on anatomy) in their personal library." Dale, I absolutely agree with you. I guess I have written something ambiguous. I meant that medical books are the ones that I have no problem finding. But I definitely make use of them and think they are crutial for the martial artist. Thanks for the concern. ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:55:30 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: BB newbies Darlene wrote: >What sort of routines or ceremonies do you have when a student >receives >their 1st dan black belt? At my school in the ATA, the first degree ceremony goes something like this: Each student is given a board that has a bar of soap and a candle mounted on it. This is symbolic of the gift Grand Master Lee received from his instructor when he can to the United States. The soap represents cleansing the mind and body, while the light of the candle is seen as knowledge. Each sacrifices of itself in order to perform their functions - much the way an instructor sacrifices of themself to help their students learn and grow. The room is totally dark, except for the light from the Master's (6th degree in the ATA) candle. The gong is rung nine times (nine Gup levels, nine BB levels). The student will light their candle off of the Master's, then wait patiently while the Master reads what their black belt certificate will say. The student then removes the old belt, and ties on their new belt. It is a very moving experience. Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@carl.org Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:00:24 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring vs. real life \ From: "Alexander, Stephen (Nexfor)" \ \ Does anyone have any experiences they can relate where they have used their \ TKD style in a REAL self defense situation?? I mean where you where \ attacked on the street or whatever and you used TKD kicks and punches and \ fighting style and they were effective? Did any of these situations go to \ the ground? what did you find lacking in your training.. if anything? What \ would you do different? I don't have a personal experience, but I do have a story. A cousin's girlfriend (who was a black belt, and daughter of an instructor) was attacked some years ago. She'd pulled in to a gas station (it was night BTW) to get gas for her car and on the way back to her car (after paying for the gas) a guy lured her to his van off to the side of the station (I believe he wanted her to hold a flashlight while he worked on his engine). Well, he grabbed her from behind and tried to pull her into his van. She reacted fairly quickly by stomping his toe, turning around, and snapping a front kick into his groin. He dropped. She ran to her car, jumped in, and drove several blocks to a phone booth to call the police. (I don't recal whether they caught the guy). It only took two quick, simple, and "dirty" techniques to disable her attacker. Nothing elegant, no high kicks, no spinning kicks, no jumping kicks. Also, despite her training, she was scared spitless and in shock from the attack for about a week afterwards. Sparring may prepare one for a RL attack, but it doesn't even come close to the real thing in term of psychological impact. What I learned is that if I'm ever attacked, I won't really be prepared for it. Also, quick and simple works. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 06:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #518 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.