From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #541 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 30 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 541 In this issue: the_dojang: WTF Competition the_dojang: Re: "...in just three hours...but wait, there's more!" the_dojang: Re: barney the bb the_dojang: Songahm forms the_dojang: injuries and venting... the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #538 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #539 the_dojang: Re: ITC Questions (WTF forms) the_dojang: Re: Style American TaeKwonDo or Western TKD the_dojang: info on belt colors and poomse Re: the_dojang: Re: Style American TaeKwonDo or Western TKD the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~775 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "tink" Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:42:53 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: WTF Competition "The TaeGuks are the only forms recognised in WTF _competition_," This is a very incorrect statement. I attend many WTF competitions. Palgwes, Taegueks, and even the Choi Hyungs are acceptable for WTF competition. The Grand-Master with who I am presently training under is President of the USTU for this State as well as a WTF Grand Master. The Taegeuks are the only acceptable forms in USTU Sanctioned State and National competitions. Pil Seung K. G. Farral 4th Dan ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:10:27 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: "...in just three hours...but wait, there's more!" In a message dated 10/29/99 5:20:49 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: " This has been covered in this forum before, so apologies in advance to anyone bored as a result, but... I'm mystified that anyone would believe that a 3-hour women's (or anyone else's;>) self-defense course that claimed to move beyond concepts into actual techniques could be of any real value, save as a promotion for more extended instruction. " ya, right. so why bother, eh? lol. my arent you a pessimist, scott. :) i dont think its a promo. however, it is a great foundation. it gives people something to work with instead of just plain old fear. granted, fear can be a good tool to motivate oneself. but if you dont know what to do with it, youre screwed. fear, like anger, is like winning the lottery. where you gonna spend it? sitting on your booty, afraid to exit the house? or communing with someone who can help you turn it into a shield or weapon? personally, i'd take the latter. three hours is better than nothing. unless youve been to the seminar, (no i havent been either) i'd vote to neither sing praises, nor completely invalidate it. perhaps one could agree to state that "some" three hour seminars are bunk. and that it is possible that "some" other seminars pack a lotta punch for such a short time. personally, i'd hate to make such a broad sweeping statement about something of which i know nothing. i would rather keep an open mind about the possibilities. but that's just me. melinda ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:13:30 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: barney the bb In a message dated 10/29/99 5:20:49 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: " I kick you, you kick me... ;>)) " lol, scott! ------------------------------ From: "The Hostetlers" Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:11:34 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Songahm forms Chris, The reason nobody but active ATA members do Songahm forms is that they've been copyrighted, so no one outside ATA can teach them. I've seen one or two performed at open tournaments, and my impression was more of shock at seeing someone do something that wasn't a Taeguk, than of using a critical eye to analyze what they were performing. Robert W. Hostetler Office: hostetb@indy.navy.mil Indianapolis, IN Home: hostetb@iserve.net Life's a trip and then you run out of Travelers' Checks. >From: "Christopher Spiller" >Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:43:36 PDT >Subject: the_dojang: ITC questions > >I know the ITC is a WTF affiliated organization but from what I've read in >"Taekwon-Do Times" they practice the Chang Hun tuls. I thought you had to do >Taegueks to get a Kukkiwon certificate. I know they also do WTF Black Belt >poomse but what about the Taegeuks? > >(Interestingly, the majority of Korean Masters and Grandmasters I've met >practice and teach the Chang Huns, but they've all been WTF affiliates.) > >Also, since it's an organization that is made up of ex-ATA'ers why no >Songahm hyung? From what I can tell the split with the ATA happened AFTER >Grandmaster Lee came up with his own hyungs. > >Any insights would be appreciated. > >Taekwon, >Chris ------------------------------ From: Paula Weston Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 01:06:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: the_dojang: injuries and venting... At 03:30 PM 10/29/99 -0700, Sam Stratton wrote: > >>I hope to return active kicking soon (I'm still instructing without >> >kicking) and would ask for your thoughts and prayers. I have had to >miss >>practices before for certain reasons ( moving, overtime, etc.) >but I have >>never missed a workout WHILE being there! not being able >to kick while >>others are is pretty torturous and trying to correct a >students kick >>without the benefit of legs is difficult. And Christopher Spiller replied: > >Sitting in class while others are working out can be THE WORST. I remember >once when I was taking a break from training when I was a 3rd gup(I wasn't >injured just busy with other things and feeling a little burnt out). Well, >by the third or fourth class that I missed I was back at the school watching >my classmates train. One the one hand I wish I could have been out on the >floor with them but on the other hand it gave me the opportunity to watch >others perform techniques more closely than I normally did (especially my >instructor). This was a great learning experience - technique wise but also >for building patience. I, too, have been hanging out at the studio to watch my classmates train while recovering from an injury, and it's been a great learning experience--and, as Christopher points out--it's been quite an exercise in patience. I snapped my right fibula about an inch above the ankle five weeks ago, while engaging in basic movements, outdoors, on a steep hill. I hit a gopher hole and inverted my foot; I'd never broken a bone before, and couldn't believe the pain. The best part about my injury: While I was rolling down hill, in fetal position, in big-time pain, I repeatedly said, "owie, owie, owie, owie," rather than what I really and truly wanted to say--there were kids around. Tae kwon do taught me to focus on the big picture in any given situation, so I didn't sound off like a longshoreman, as I truly wanted to. :) With permission of my orthopedist, I've begun training again--but no kicking. Sigh. paula ------------------------------ From: MissIllona@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 01:42:27 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #538 In a message dated 10/29/99 9:46:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I am located in the northern portion of the Mojave Desert in a city called California City. We are about 15 minutes from Edwards AFB where the Space Shuttle lands when the weather in Florida isn't so great. >> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... I have a friend who also teaches karate up there in California City. His name is Mike and he used to have a small dojo (only teaches part time) ... but now he does it out of some Rec. Center or something. Been a year since I have been up that way. Last time I was up there we were giving his students a nunchaku seminar for the price of a free meal .... (after the seminar his students had brought us a cool potluck lunch made by them ... it was delicious ... we had a blast !) Now he owes us a seminar and we will feed him and his helpers a cool potluck lunch !! How do you like having your own school Silke? Illona ------------------------------ From: "Silke Schulz" Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:21:43 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #539 Chris wrote: > I know the ITC is a WTF affiliated organization but from what I've read in > "Taekwon-Do Times" they practice the Chang Hun tuls. I thought you had to do > Taegueks to get a Kukkiwon certificate. I know they also do WTF Black Belt > poomse but what about the Taegeuks? We are only required to do KORYO, etc. at black belt. We practice the Chang Hun ryu forms throughout the color belts and continue through Black Belt. Since Olympic competition is not a goal for me, I am somewhat uneducated as to any further requirements the WTF may have for forms. We have been told only the Black Belt forms were necessary, and I, again being uneducated, couldn't tell you whether or not KORYO is a Taegeuk or other form. > Also, since it's an organization that is made up of ex-ATA'ers why no > Songahm hyung? From what I can tell the split with the ATA happened AFTER > Grandmaster Lee came up with his own hyungs. It is my understanding that the Songham forms are copyrighted and thus proprietary to the ATA. Therefore, without ATA licensing approval, a school outside the ATA would not legally be able to use or teach them. Silke Schulz ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:51:33 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: ITC Questions (WTF forms) Ray wrote: << I have heard of WTF schools that do not teach the Taegeuks or the short lived Palgwes, e.g. some may teach the original Pyong Ahn forms, but I have never personally encountered one. There are even a few WTF schools that do not teach any forms at all. >> By the same token, there are "WTF" (actually, Kukkiwon-affiliated thru NGB) schools that teach Taegeuks, Palgwes, Pyong Ahns, AND even a couple of the actual Shotokan forms. I know this because my son received his "basic" Taekwondo training and his 1st black belt from one with this curriculum. All the aforementioned forms plus Koryo were a requirement for 1st Dan. Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Anoot@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:15:38 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Re: Style American TaeKwonDo or Western TKD CAn anyone explain what is typically known as American TaeKwonDo or Western style TaeKwonDo fits into or does not fit into the Olympic games and also how this particular style fits or does not fit into the various national or international organizations. Please attempt to finally explain to a novice what appears to being very confusing. My son is currenly involved in this style which offers a lot of competition locally and nationally, but are we missing something more? ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:24:49 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: info on belt colors and poomse This is what I managed to dig up from the KTA site: Information on philosophical aspects of belt colors: http://www.koreataekwondo.org/eng/ency/ency2_1.htm#2 Information on poomse. Notice that Palgwe is listed as "supplementary". http://www.koreataekwondo.org/eng/ency/ency.htm And if you have any further questions, I guess the best thing to do is just to e-mail the KTA and ask them! I'm sure they'd be more than helpful. I think this may have come up not too long ago, but does anybody know of a collective name for the WTF dan poomse; eg. koryo, keumgang, taebaek? Sincerely, Emil Fisk ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Style American TaeKwonDo or Western TKD > Can anyone explain what is typically known as American TaeKwonDo or Western > style TaeKwonDo fits into or does not fit into the Olympic games and also how > this particular style fits or does not fit into the various national or > international organizations. I'm not sure I understand your question... Not sure I know what Western style of Taekwondo is, but... There are various political organizations with martial arts in general and Taekwondo is no exception. Some of the orgs are very large, some are very small. But as far as what is taught in Taekwondo schools there tends to be three types of schools (IMHO), those that focus on Olympic style Taekwondo, those that do not focus on Olympic style Taekwondo, and those that do both (i.e. part of the time you train for competition and the rest of the time you do not). Hopefully all teach the human development concepts of Courtesy, Integrity, Self-control, Perseverance, and Indomitable Spirit. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #541 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.