From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #542 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 30 Oct 1999 Vol 06 : Num 542 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #540 the_dojang: American/Olympic Style TKD the_dojang: My ITC questions the_dojang: OUCH! the_dojang: Chang Hun, Taeguk, Palgwe... Let's call the whole thing off! Re: the_dojang: S.Silz the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #541 the_dojang: Western Style the_dojang: WTF Forms the_dojang: Baking in the desert the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~775 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: J Thomas Howard Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:27:59 -0500 (CDT) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #540 > Subject: the_dojang: Silz for VP [snip large section of promo letter from Mr. Silz] > > 4. Pursue legislation that would require background checks > and licensing of all martial art instructors in America. > Put the phonies out of business and more people will come to > our licensed and USTU Certified studios. I'm afraid that one lost me, there. Not because there aren't a lot of people out there that I think shouldn't be teaching----but because I can't think of a single government commission, agency, or whatnot that would be able to check and license the incredibly diverse set of styles and types of martial arts in the U.S. Yes---there are people out there teaching absolute crap. (Pardon my wording.) However, who is going to license all styles? Who is going to say what is "good" and "worthy?" Anyway---this topic (back when several states were trying to create boards for this) has been hashed out a number of times, so I'm not saying anything new. But I felt it necessary to say that while Mr. Silz has demonstrated both knowledge and willingness to share it, working on the above is not well thought out, in my opinion. I would have a hard time supporting someone who would pursue such legislation. Thomas - ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat/Hap.html "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." ------------------------------ From: "tink" Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:10:48 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: American/Olympic Style TKD > Can anyone explain what is typically known as American TaeKwonDo or Western > style TaeKwonDo fits into or does not fit into the Olympic games and also how > this particular style fits or does not fit into the various national or > international organizations. I'm not sure I understand your question... Not sure I know what Western style of Taekwondo is, but... In response to the above: American Tae Kwon Do was coined when GM Jhoon Rhee first came to the United States and started teaching the traditional Korean art form in a manner more suitable to Americans with some adaptations of his own combined with his own philosophies and knowledge of engineering (he happens to be a Civil Engineer). He modified the training techniques and styles to be more suitable to Americans. For this reason he is known as "The Father of American Tae Kwon Do". Truly one of the founding Fathers, who I had the honor of meeting recently. He is a member of the ITF and it was he who pushed for Tae Kwon Do to be an Olympic sport. He started the push, if memory serves correctly, between 15 and 20 years ago (not sure of the actually time frame). If anyone wishes to train for the Olympic style competition, they should first ask their Master Instructor and discuss the request and the requirements. The Master Instructor should, if agreeable to both parties, contact the Olympic Committee for Tae Kwon Do in Colorado for further information and requirements. It will not be an easy path. It will certainly push adherence to the Tenets of Tae Kwon Do to the limits. Any Member of any Tae Kwon Do organization can train for the Olympic games. There are no organizational restrictions to my knowledge. Olympic Style Sport Fighting is quite different from normal tournament and class room sparring. Hand techniques are almost unheard of, unless you have the technique, know-how, and stamina to move your opponents body with one punch. The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:10:15 PDT Subject: the_dojang: My ITC questions I'd just like to thank those of you who told me about the ATA's copyright on their forms. I knew this piece of info once, but I guess the old memory isn't what it used to be... I'm just glad I can remember MY patterns :) . This copyright business seems like a good idea. I believe Kuk Sa Nim In Hyuk Suh has done the same thing with the term "Kuk Sool." Boy, I was going to ask a question about whether or not Gen. Choi or the SK government has legal rights to the term "Taekwon-Do" but the possibility of ensuing flames has prevented me. Oops, wait a minute... lol Taekwon (can I say that?) Chris PS No disrespect to the General or anyone else is meant by the above rantings. There goes any chance of certification from ANY governing body... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:21:09 PDT Subject: the_dojang: OUCH! Paula wrote: >I snapped my right fibula about an inch above the ankle five weeks > >ago,while engaging in basic movements, outdoors, on a steep hill. I >hit >a gopher hole and inverted my foot; I'd never broken a bone >before, and >couldn't believe the pain. Anybody out there seen "Caddy Shack"? Maybe Bill Murray wasn't so crazy after all. >The best part about my injury: While I was rolling down hill, in >fetal >position, in big-time pain, I repeatedly said, "owie, owie, >owie, owie," >rather than what I really and truly wanted to say-->there were kids around. >Tae kwon do taught me to focus on the big >picture in any given situation, >so I didn't sound off like a >longshoreman, as I truly wanted to. >:) <- Paula showing an amazing amount of self-control. 8^Ouch! <- Me screaming in agony if I were her. Actually, that's an incredible amount of restraint for the sake of those kids. I wish the TV and Movie producers would use a little more of it. >With permission of my orthopedist, I've begun training again--but no >kicking. Sigh. I guess this rules out jumping as well? I hope you feel better soon. I've always been amazed that the legs and feet TKD'ers use to demolish stack of wood, hogu-vested opponentes, etc. are actually quite fragile. Taekwon, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:47:16 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Chang Hun, Taeguk, Palgwe... Let's call the whole thing off! To add my $.02 to the current debate on which forms are required for competition and promotion... When I was taking WTF Taekwondo at Purdue University it was explained to me that the official forms of the WTF are the Taeguks. Period. The Palgwes were out. What this actually MEANT was a little less clear, however. At tournaments we'd see Taeguks, Palgwes, and Chang Huns performed (I don't recall seeing any Pyong Ahns then, but I have seen them at tournaments in Michigan from WTF schools but mainly Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do people). The instructor at Purdue - who is an extremely skillful martial artist - taught the Taeguks and the Chang Huns. But he seemed to use the Taeguks because he HAD to. A friend of mine who was a student of his for much longer than I told me that he liked the Chang Huns better because "They make more sense." I only learned the first two Taeguks and Koryo so I can't really say, but... During the promotional tests at the Master's school the students performed both Taeguks and Chang Huns for the outside WTF MAster who would come to do the actual grading. So what does "official" mean? Quizzically, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: the_dojang: S.Silz > > Subject: the_dojang: Silz for VP > [snip large section of promo letter from Mr. Silz] > > > > 4. Pursue legislation that would require background checks > > and licensing of all martial art instructors in America. > > Put the phonies out of business and more people will come to > > our licensed and USTU Certified studios. > > [snip] > above is not well thought out, in my opinion. I would have a hard time > supporting someone who would pursue such legislation. SS is probably still on a plane right now, but I, too, told him that I did not support #4 on his platform. But when was the last time you voted for a candidate for office in which you supported ALL of their positions? If you're like me, I suspect never (unless you yourself happened to be running for something :). I'd rather vote for a candidate that we know, that is trustworthy, that I can agree with most of their platform, and then work with them on those points in which we disagree. Hopefully we can debate this point a bit once SS returns from Korea. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Silke Schulz" Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:30:32 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #541 Illona wrote: >Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... I have a friend who also teaches karate up there in >California City. His name is Mike and he used to have a small dojo (only >teaches part time) ... but now he does it out of some Rec. Center or >something. I haven't met Mike, but I know of him. His storefront was in the "mall", and now he teaches two nights of the week out of the Sportscenter. I teach classes the same nights (and other nights, too) as he does, so I don't have the opportunity to visit his program. He has not visited mine. >How do you like having your own school Silke? I LOVE it!!! I am having so much fun! And I'm learning so much--I really like the challenges involved with having your own program and starting it from scratch (things like the respect protocols we took for granted at an established program having to be taught with no higher rank students to establish precedence). I'm looking forward to hosting my first testing on November 13th. If you are ever in the area again, I would love to meet you, so feel free to stop by! Silke Schulz ______________________________________________ "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall." --Vince Lombardi ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:27:00 EDT Subject: the_dojang: Western Style In a message dated 10/30/99 1:04:25 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I'm not sure I understand your question... Not sure I know what Western style of Taekwondo is, but... >> this may step on some toes, but IMHO, Western, American, Oklahoman, Arkansan martial arts = ADVERTISING. Many schools have decided that in order to lure students away from the competition, they need to distance themselves from the Oriental roots. So in some ethnocentric areas - which will do better American Taekwondo or Korean Taekwondo - It is al usually a sign of someone who has broken off from somewhere else and is using the title to excuse their lack of knowledge. Forms - oh we don't do those - "This is American Karate." just a thought...... ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:23:04 EDT Subject: the_dojang: WTF Forms In a message dated 10/30/99 1:04:25 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The Taegeuks are the only acceptable forms in USTU Sanctioned State and National competitions. >> sorry - you can now do either taeguek or palgue forms in USTU state or national competitions - but you can only do the one approved for your rank - ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Baking in the desert > >How do you like having your own school Silke? > > I LOVE it!!! I am having so much fun! And I'm learning so much--I really > like the challenges involved with having your own program and starting it > from scratch (things like the respect protocols we took for granted at an > established program having to be taught with no higher rank students to > establish precedence). Silke, I'm curious... You're a lady with a new dojang in a small town in the California desert, near a military base. Yes? In your opinion, what types of issues, if any, have come up that may not have come up were you a male in that same position? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #542 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.