From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #559 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 9 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 559 In this issue: the_dojang: another B-Day coming up... the_dojang: Re: TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION (foot position while kicking) the_dojang: Learning types... the_dojang: "short eyes" the_dojang: Responses to Many the_dojang: Good Stuff the_dojang: foot position while kicking the_dojang: Re: tenets vs. behaviour the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #558 the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #558 the_dojang: Kwans the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 16:07:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: another B-Day coming up... Any US Marines out there? Happy Birthday! (on Wednesday) Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ From: "Jim Nakashima" Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 16:22:05 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION (foot position while kicking) > TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION (foot position while kicking): > If I would have been on the ball of my foot for a round kick I would not be in my current situation,( torn up knee). Kicking on a flat foot is dangerous, and can produce massive ligament tears as well as destruction of cartilaginous I was always taught to pivot on the ball of your foot but then put the flat of your foot down. This prevents rolling over on the ankle as well as provides additional stability for better balance and increased power. Jim ------------------------------ From: J Thomas Howard Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 18:56:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Learning types... > From: dbuehrer@carl.org > Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:22:33 -0700 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Teaching > > \ From: "Silke Schulz" > \ > \ Unfortunately, many martial artists are taught > \ their martial art, but not how to teach. We were all taught how to punch, > \ how to perform a front stance, but how many of us were taught by our > \ instructors that there people learn three different ways and that each of us > \ has one predominant method of learning we prefer, etc.? > > And what would those three different ways be? :) Well, I'm not sure which definition of "learning" that she is using, but from what I know, there are three basic (and obvious) ways people intake information: Auditory Visual Kinesthetic Most people use all three methods, with a definite preference for one out of the three. Once they'll got some data, they tend to process it in a couple of different ways: Wholistically (also called "global learning") Analytical Wholistic style processors take the "overview" version of learning. They look at the big picture, and generally pick up martial techniques quickly, at the basic level. However, they tend to slide over little details, and spend copious amounts of time later fixing small mistakes that they didn't practice precisely from the start. Analytical processors learn piece by piece, and it takes a long time. Matter of fact, many martial analytical types find their art extremely frustrating in the beginning, because there are so MANY details they have to keep in mind all at once---and analytical processors finalize a technique in their mind by making sure each detail of the technique is learned and correct. Each piece and detail is just as important as the last one, right from the start---small body movement details as much as gross body movement. (Note: free-form and flowing martial styles drive this type nuts, too. In general.) I have a student that almost exclusively takes kinesthetic input, with an almost completely analytical processing style. As you can guess, learning new techniques is a frustrating and time-consuming experience for her. She calls it continually character-building. :) Understanding what is happening makes it less frustrating for me, and more importantly, makes me able to more appropriately angle teaching in ways that help her---and makes me able to NOT think myself a terrible teacher just because some things she just Doesn't Get Some Things. Telling her doesn't really help, nor does showing her. Occasionally, adjusting her body position does, and just letting her do it again and again is what helps her most. These all aren't hard and fast absolutes, of course. But they are good general ideas to keep in mind while teaching. Oddly enough, most martial instructors automatically give all three types of learning input when teaching, unlike instructors of other things. Most instructors demonstrate a technique, explain its usage and how it works, demonstrate it again, then have the students try it, occasionally correcting each student (sometimes by physically moving the student into the correct position) as they perform the technique. We hit all three learning styles. :) And you all know the person in class who always stops and asks tiny, little details that they don't have enough control yet to manage? The one who can't move the body yet, but wants to know what the angle of the wrist should be? Analytical----they NEED (in their minds) to know that detail, because to them it is just as important as the large gross body movement. (Which it is---but not at the point where you are just learning the technique originally!) And then we have the people who learn the technique immediately, can do it----but EVERY TIME, their knee is turned inwards (or some other little detail), taking away from their power, and you CANNOT get them to align it properly. Global types, who gloss over things like that, and need to be watched so that after the large movements are gotten, they don't get complacent and slide over the details. Anyway----I can babble on and on about this. Is it _necessary_ to know these things? Of course not. My instructor wouldn't know the terms for any of this. However, after 30 years of teaching, and observing students, he knew EXACTLY what I was talking about when I talked about my class one day. He is an incredible teacher, and learned it all the hard way. Which brings up the fact that if you know these details already, "the hard way" isn't quite as hard. Just some thoughts. Thomas - ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat/ "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." ------------------------------ From: "Prof. William Upton-Knittle" Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 18:06:58 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: "short eyes" At 04:16 PM 11/8/99 -0800, you wrote: > > for a > > grossly illegal act (know the prison definition of 'short eyes'?)... I don['t know whom you are speaking about, but be careful. As a psychologist I can assure you that there is no therapy that will EVER help one of these people. They ALWAYS re-offend and should never be allowed out of prison. They are in the same category as sociopaths, which, in a way, they are themselves. b ------------------------------ From: "tink" Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 21:30:03 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Responses to Many People are people regardless of their brand of martial art. I defy you to show me a competitive environment where every person present embodies high cultural ideals and impeccable conduct is displayed across the board. I must agree with you 100%...It will never happen...people are people with their own beliefs, mannerisms, and attitudes...and that will never change! In our school we adamantly teach flat foot, for the sake of more balance and more stability, not to mention that not every student is capable of standing on the toes only to execute a kick. We have found that they develop much better support of the kick Have to agree...many students lack the balance to kick off the toes...and flat foot works better for them...however, I notice they have much more difficulty in pivoting and turning of the flat foot or heel...and many tend to strain their ankles or knees...However...There is a time and place for each method...in my opinion...I have use flat foot techniques in sparring depending upon my position to my opponent...and have used flat foot techniques in some board breaking techniques...the added twist of the hip is much easier from a flat foot...at least for me...but I do train and teach from the toes for balance and for added extension ...since I am only 5'4" tall... Moral of the story: Perform your kicks while paying attention to the stresses being applied to the body. this will maximize impact while minimizing the potential for damage to yourself. Sound Advice!!! Plus, who hasn't learned to block better after getting kicked in the ribs or in the face??? That's how I learned...still learning in some instances! Mine either, but, just for the sake of good communication, what is your defination of a "traditional master?" I tend to type what is running through my mind without always being clear on the idea...sorry... Traditional Master: (My Definition and this is just one of my little quirks to distinguish different types of instructors)...Kukkiwon Certified Korean who teaches in the traditional Korean methods...(whatever they may be for that Master Instructor)...I have also trained under American Masters who have been trained by Korean Masters and it's great to see how the teaching flows down from different Masters to their students...In my experience, I have seen Most...not ALL...American Instructors and Masters add a certain Americanization (as I call it) to the performance of some techniques as opposed to the way they were originally taught...Like I said...my own definition with my own quirks...Take it for what it's worth... And now, when he shows up, it appears solely to exercise his massive ego with his display of pushups in front of the largest martial arts audience in the world: the USTU's Junior Nationals! I may be wrong to feel this way, but I would have like to see Master Rhee using the press that he has gained access to over the years to help promote the official structure of taekwondo, rather than himself. Well...After meeting him for the first time at a seminar...I was rather displeased with what seemed to be a rather large ego...however...after thinking about it...though I really think he should tone a lot of it down and spend more energy on promoting the art and sport...he's entitled...gotta admit...the man is talented...and has made a lot of accomplishments in his career... Pil Seung The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: "tink" Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 21:32:37 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Good Stuff I have been very impressed with the amount of knowledge, opinions, and responses being shared in this format...this is excellent and I enjoy reading such a wide variety of experiences and knowledge...it's great learning and growing as you learn...thanks to all Pil Seung The One and Only... Tink ------------------------------ From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:37:55 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: foot position while kicking Obviously, one must pivot on the balancing foot. And the pivot must be done on the ball of your feet, because doing otherwise would result in a slow and in-efficient pivot. Without pivoting, your knee, muscles in your lower back, waist, and balancing leg, would be restraining the kick, and could result in muscle tear. Your whole body wants to twist and turn in one direction, but your balancing leg wants to stay still - not good. I find that while performing basic kicks in a stationary position, I tend to kick flatfooted, after the pivot. This gives me a better base and balance while recovering, and hopefully a more powerful kick when performing linear attacks. However, when in a sparring situation, I prefer people to be on the balls of their feet. This makes them more mobile and faster. It takes more time to kick when both your feet are completely hugging the ground. When you're standing on the ball of your foot, you've got a slightly longer extension range, and in circular kicks, you could add an extra twist behind your kick. So the extra speed would help generate a bit more power. Ask someone who's done muay thai about this. Another advantage is that you'll be able to get in an extra skip, step, or slide into the thrust of the kick and go through the target. That's always nice. And finally, a little anecdote. During one class a friend of mine was teaching, he wanted students to start bouncing, but without their feet leaving the floor. He shouted out the command: "Bounce on your balls!" I burst into laughter and had to leave the room. Luckily, none of the children realized what had just passed. Sincerely, Emil Fisk ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:50:39 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: tenets vs. behaviour In a message dated 11/8/99 6:10:57 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << > > i have to agree with you on that. seems that there is a lot of behaviour > which defies the tenets taught in tkd. there's also a lot of negative match > management, of which i am not a fan. it's just not an honourable fight. > > melinda > People are people regardless of their brand of martial art. I defy you to show me a competitive environment where every person present embodies high cultural ideals and impeccable conduct is displayed across the board. SESilz >> yup. people will be people. and i'd expect the people i commune with to act honourably and with integrity. on the mat, we leave it up to our referees to determine what is and is not appropriate and that is certainly fine with me. and if i see a student acting dishonourably, i know that he has been taught to act this way. by his senior (either a parent or instructor). i dont believe anyone said that every martial artist, every martial art, and every competition will have 100% honourable people in the mix. master silz, i guess i'm not sure of the point youre arguing. perhaps you feel that someone is bashing ustu competitions? if that is your concern, i am speaking of competitions in general. i am not putting down ustu competitions. i'm concerned about the lack of mutual respect and integrity among _some_ martial artist competitors. that is all. melinda ------------------------------ From: "Silke Schulz" Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 23:00:39 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #558 David Buehrer wrote: >>And what would those three different ways be? :) Visually, aurally (hearing) and kinesthetically (touch or feel)...for example, kids learn best kinesthetically, but we also need to reinforce that with visual and aural cues....by the time we are adults, we have found a preference for learning in one of those three methods. Think of what finally works for you when you're having trouble with a technique. Do you learn best watching your instructor perform the technique correctly? Or does he need to explain it to you in detail? Or does he need to take your arm and make it go correctly for you to fully comprehend how to perform the technique properly? My two cents for the evening, Sleep tight! Silke Schulz ------------------------------ From: "Vaught, Clifford (CLF N6Y2K8)" Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 08:23:32 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #558 I have a new topic/question for the Digest. I'm 41 and have been diagnosed with severe arthritis in both hips (although pain only manifested in the left side). The orthopedic surgeons I've seen both have me tapped for total hip replacements in the future. I wanted to find out if there are any readers of the Digest out there who have artificial hips now and what the impact has been on their training and pursuing their martial arts career. Cliff Vaught ------------------------------ From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 07:48:39 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Kwans "So of all the major Kwans at the time, Hwang Kee was the only one to refuse. " Nothing for nothing but, I talked to my Ji Do Kwan instructor and he informed that Ji Do Kwan swayed from joining in the beginning, then joined, then quit, then joined again. They weren't really satisfied with government type control, however they finally took the dive. Jeremy MACS ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 06:26:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #559 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.