From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #570 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 16 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 570 In this issue: the_dojang: MACS mission the_dojang: Stan's wedding the_dojang: LearnKorean list the_dojang: Diversity of arts vs. diversity of orgs. the_dojang: Re: dojang in Co. the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~780 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:18:43 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: MACS mission Cliff wrote: "What is meant by "The Martial Arts Collective Society, or MACS, is dedicated to ... the unification of the Martial Arts"? I, for one, do NOT desire a unification of the arts." Perhaps you misunderstood or we did not explain it well enough. We are not aiming to make one martial art by combining all martial arts. We are wanting to exchange ideas, philosophies, histories of different various styles. We believe that all the arts have something to teach us, however there are way too many egos out there to open up and learn. What we do at MACS is provide a way to learn about different styles. In no way do we claim to know it all, or be the ends of all means. We simply try to get people together and open their minds to other styles. For example if you join us and you are a TSD practitioner, you are still a TSD practitioner, you are not a MACS practitioner. However, let's say that you want to learn about your history, you can get in touch with someone from MACS or check out our archives that may have done research on your history. What if you were curious about HKD, well we have videos available that you can purchase that demonstrates HKD. You notified of different seminars of different styles in your area. If you are going to be in a area doing a demo or seminar on TSD you can have printed up in the MACS so that people in that area could come and see. This month they did a quick letter about the annual Gathering. We had people from all over the world from different systems teaching there. There were no "my style was better than that style". Egos didn't exist. I could give you a 99% guarantee that if you asked the participants what they felt there, they would tell you that they felt the brother/sisterhood of the martial arts. Sorry to babble. Anyway we are not trying to combine all arts as one art, we are simply bringing them together to learn from one another. Jeremy MACS ------------------------------ From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:22:10 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Stan's wedding Stan wrote: "I'm getting married on Nov. 27, and I have invited my Grandmaster to attend the ceremony and banquet. He invited 3 other Masters to join him. I think this is an honor. Please correct me if I am mistaken." First of all congratulations on your upcoming event. Secondly it is not a mistake, it is an honor that your GM would invite other GMs to join him in your celebration. First of all some GM's would make an excuse not to be there, or they would be there with their wife or another student. He must think highly of you to invite other instructors as well. Jeremy MACS ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 07:55:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: LearnKorean list Forwarding. Ray Terry - ------------------------------------------------------------- Introducing the LearnKorean Discussion Lists - - LearnKorean1-L for Beginners - - LearnKorean2-L for Intermediate and Higher Level Learners These lists are set up to create a better learning environment where Korean learners have ample opportunities to practice and communicate in Korean with native Korean speakers and other learners around the world. These lists are basically for exchanging messages in Korean with other list members and participating in language activities. Anyone who is interested in learning Korean is invited to join our discussions. Two Unique Features of the Lists 1. Language activities Apart from discussions, you are encouraged to participate in language activities that are designed to help your learning of Korean. Activities will range from simple ones such as describing your typical weekends and introducing your home town to more challenging ones such as promoting tourist attractions in your country and pros and cons of globalisation of the world cultures. 2. Feedback by 'Friends of the LearnKorean Discussion List' The Friends of the LearnKorean Discussion List are native Korean speakers who are very committed to helping Korean learners. They will provide feedback on your writing. You may think that you don't want other members to see your errors since you may feel embarrassed. However, making errors and knowing what sort of errors you and other members have made can help you learn better. As learners, you are bound to make errors. It is very natural and, as mentioned before, we learn a lot from errors and mistakes. So don't be afraid of making errors. In fact, you are helping yourselves and other members by making errors and mistakes. However, if you still do not want feedback on your writing, just write 'NO FEEDBACK (or NF)' at the beginning of your messages.) There are currently two discussion lists, but more may be created as the demand for them becomes evident. Please, choose one of them depending on your Korean proficiency. 1) TO SUBSCRIBE Use your email program and send an email message to the address: mailserv@cc.monash.edu.au Leave the subject line of your message blank and type the following command as the text of your message: subscribe LearnKorean1-L [your email address] eg. subscribe LearnKorean1-L Paul.Smith@monash.edu.au or subscribe LearnKorean2-L Paul.Smith@monash.edu.au Or use a Web-based subscription form at the site given at the end of this message. (If you are using a free web-based email service, you will have difficulties in subscribing. It's because they automatically insert advertising lines or graphics at the end of each email message. You'd better use the Web-based subscription form.) 2) TO SEND A MESSAGE TO THE LIST MEMBERS Send messages to the address: LearnKorean1-L@arts.monash.edu.au or LearnKorean2-L@arts.monash.edu.au For information on unsubscription and editing system for feedback, please visit the Web site for the lists at the following address: http://www.arts.monash.edu.au/korean/centre/resources/communication/mlist NOTE These lists could not have been possible without the help of VANK (Voluntary Agency Network Korea). VANK is a non-profit organisation and its aim is to promote Korea overseas. One of their programs is pen pal connection. For further information, please visit their Web site (http://www.prkorea.org). ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:36:14 PST Subject: the_dojang: Diversity of arts vs. diversity of orgs. Cliff Vaught wrote: >What is meant by "The Martial Arts Collective Society, or MACS, is > >dedicated to ... the unification of the Martial Arts"? I, for one, >do >NOT desire a unification of the arts. I believe variety and > >diversification is a part of the martial arts that is good. I think we need to make some distinctions here. I don't know of anyone who would say they want the martial arts to be united in the sense that there's only ONE martial art. That would mean everyone does the same forms, the same techniques, the same rank system, etc. While some things might be less confusing this way there would be something lacking - variety of technique. Maybe we come closer to unity when we talk about the "Martial Way" rather than the "Martial Arts." The former is a way of life, the later is a specific fighting style. There are poeple out there that do want the arts unified in a political way. They want one big organization overseeing several arts. Example: WOMAF (World Oriental Martial Arts Federation) I believe does ranking/training/etc. with Hapkido, Taekwon-Do, Aikido, etc. >There is a concept in Moo Duk Kwan known as Ryu Pa - river flows >down >divided. It is the natural progression of a body of >knowledge. Not all >of it is good. Some of it, though, leads to and >facilitates greater >insights into the arts and into the person. Whether this is "natural" is debatable. Man is, by his very nature, a social being. We come from others, we live with others, and most of the religions I have encountered say we even die with others (God, saints, spirits, etc.). This makes the continued fracturing of the martial arts a little odd, at least to me. These aren't supposed to be political parties they are (supposedly) ways of life all which purport to teach a high level of morals and ethics. >I personally feel bad about the fractured nature of Tang Soo Do from >the >original Moo Duk Kwan. I would like everyone to have been >flying under >that same banner. I'm sure practitioners from TDK and >hapkido can say the >same - in fact, is there a style out there that >hasn't splintered into >numerous organizations? As far as TSDMDK goes I think it's sad as well. GM Kee didn't want to be part of TKD so he stayed seperate. That's fine. But a while ago someone posted to this list that at least in Britain he doesn't hold the copyright to the term "Moo Duk Kwan" that an ex-student(?) of his does. That's NOT right. Say what you want about the legality of the situation, ethically it stinks and seems akin to theft. Again, I thought the martial arts were supposed to teach us to be better people. And THAT brings us to the rather looming issue of whether the morality of the head of the organization should determine whether we should belong to it in the first place. Heh, heh, maybe in a future post... ;) >The point is though, it would be worse to drive everyone into a >single >unified "art" - I don't believe that is what it's all about. >I think >General Choi tried that in Korea and it didn't work, in >fact, it looks as >if it led to greater splintering in Korean >styles. My $0.02. Again we need to distinguish things here. Does belonging to the same organization mean you practice the same art? In WOMAF's case the answer is "No", if you belong to the ITF, for example, the answer would be a "Yes". It depends on what the PURPOSE of the organization is for. Let's be clear on this. As to whether Gen. Choi's actions CAUSED further splintering in Korea, as with Hwang Kee, it could serve to make clear who is Taekwon-Do and who is NOT. Taekwon, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@carl.org Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:12:59 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: dojang in Co. \ From: GGDodge@aol.com \ \ Hi, was hoping that someone could give me some information, I may be moving \ to Fort Collins Colorado. Am hoping some one can tell me that there is a Tang \ Soo Do dojang some where near by. \ gary I have three friends who go to a good Tang Soo Do Mu Duk Kwan dojang in Lafayette CO. It would be about an hour drive from Fort Collins. There's more information at their web site at: http://www.martial-arts-network.com/tsd_home.htm If that's to far away for you, maybe the school would know about a Tang Soo Do dojang in Fort Collins . - -David Buehrer 6th Gup, Hapkido http://home.att.net/~Graht/Hapkido/Hapkido.htm - -- "Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday ... and all is well." ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 14:40:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #570 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.