From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #574 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 18 Nov 1999 Vol 06 : Num 574 In this issue: the_dojang: Subyockchigi the_dojang: Aloha Online News the_dojang: Re: V6 #573: New Romanization, hopelessly confuced the_dojang: Subyokchi'gi the_dojang: Soo Bahk, Ryu Pa, etc. the_dojang: Karate vs. Kung Fu the_dojang: budo, mudo, muye the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~710 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Emil J. Fisk" Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:27:36 +0800 Subject: the_dojang: Subyockchigi Hi Andrew, I had the same thoughts as you re:Subak. I also thought that 'chigi' meant 'strike' and didn't see how the translation to 'clapping hands' came about. I only found one other site that discusses this martial art, and it includes some pictures of techniques and a short historical and philosophical note. The interesting thing about this other site is that it is maintained by part of the Samsung Group. You would think the Koreans would know something about a Korean art! http://korea.insights.co.kr/martial/index.html Sincerely, Emil Fisk ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:59:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Aloha Online News Forwarding. Ray - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Holiday greetings and Aloha to all! 1999 is coming to a close and the Year 2000 season is about to begin. Some events have been scheduled for next year and you can check our list at www.aloha-enterprises.com for additional information or to post your website/tournament/seminar and special event free! Some of the upcoming events are: TOURNAMENTS: January 15, 2000 - Stockton, CA - Ultimate Challenge IV - Promoter Art Diocson Febuary 12, 2000 - Oakley, CA - 3rd Annual Aloha Open Karate Championships - Promoter Burt Riveira (925)625-6474 burt@aloha-enterprises.com March 11, 2000 - Manteca, CA - 4th Annual March Open Championships - Promoter Taberna's Tae Kwon Do - 209-239-8064 December 4, 1999 - Gilroy, CA - 10th Annual Mid-Cal Open All Junior Karate Championships - Sifu Doug Noble 408-842-2875 January 21-22, 2000 - New York City, NY - JBL Empire State Nationals at Madison Square Garden Convention Center- Joyce Santamaria - (516) 265-1555 Joyces@pagelinx.com March 18, 19, 2000 - North Vancouver, BC - Canada - The Tiger Balm Internationals - jfunk@smartt.com 604-421-3653 NBL/SKI AAA Rated Event! April 1-2, 2000 - Sidney, Australia - 2000 World Martial Arts Millennium Games - Over 240 divisions! Open to all styles! We are looking for Team members and Coaches! kenpo@shore.intercom.net or 410-742-2094 fax 410-742-6720 Bruce Smith SEMINARS! DESTIN, FL - Nin-Jutsu/Ju-Jutsu Seminar with Harris Warren - Soke November 20, 1999 shihan2@nuc.net or senseijr1@aol.com 850-650-9013 DAYTON, OH - Muai Thai Boxing Seminar with Ajarn Sirichai "Chai" Sirisute - November 21-22, 1999 Contact Cat or Jose 937-237-5450 kali@aegispro.com PHILADELPHIA, PA - Remy Presas/Wally Jay/George Dillman Seminar - April 8, 2000 - Contact Charles Terry MD - MKDojo@aol.com www.mkakarate.com Aloha Enterprises International - 1-925-625-6474 Announces The 3rd Annual Aloha Open Karate Championships! February 12, 2000 - Freedom High School - Oakley, CA - New Self Defense Divisions Added! www.aloha-enterprises.com ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:00:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #573: New Romanization, hopelessly confuced Can anyone on the list help me reconcile the initial statement with the1st and 3rd examples in this paragraph? I must be missing something vital. >For instance, the Korean 'g' sound (as in go) has been transcribed as >'k' when it begins a Korean word or when it ends in a syllable. >However, the new system will feature Taegu as Daegu, Kimpo as Gimpo, >and Cheju-do as Jeju-do. === Tang Soo! Scott ------------------------------ From: mpeder@attglobal.net Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:14:07 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Subyokchi'gi Here's a link to Korea Insights, which has a section about Subyokchi'gi. The information looks a bit distorted to me, though. One of my friends in Korea tried it for awhile and described it as "Tai Chi on a bad day." And it does mean "clapping hands." http://korea.insights.co.kr/martial/index.html Michael P. ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:51:04 PST Subject: the_dojang: Soo Bahk, Ryu Pa, etc. >Chris, >Thank you so much for your reply - it was great. I totally agree >with the >lack of principle of someone who would "squat" on a >trademark - that would >be Kang Uk Lee who even uses Soo Bahk Do in >his organization's name (UK >Tang Soo (Soo Bahk) Do - Moo Duk Kwan >Federation). And Martial Way versus >Martial Art is a good >comparison. In SBDMDK we have a term Moo Do Shim >Gong which refers >to the spirit of the martial artist. I think that is >the >essence. Thanks for the compliment. In reference to the MDK copyright issue: sometimes I think I let things bother me a little too much but when I heard this I didn't think it was a nice way to respect one's instructor. I am not a Tangsoodo or Soobahkdo practitioner but seeing this kind of behavior really rubbed me the wrong way. Yes, I realize I don't know the full story but on its face this situation is not good. Are you affiliated with the US So Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation? I have seen a couple of articles about them in "Inside Karate" (?) over the last couple of years. Looks like an interesting organization. I was rather impressed with their test for 4th dan and up - a week of getting looked over by Hwang Kee's son and then the actual physical test at the end. Reminds me of a "quality control" type measure. >My reference to Gen. Choi is from my understanding of the situation >in >Korea at the time right after the war there when TKD gained the > >approval/support of the government. In that case it appeared to me >to >be an attempt by the government to stamp out other organizations >and >styles, "unifying" all schools/practitioners in a single >art/style. I >could be off on that one. I don't know all the details about this time period, although it is fascinating. I am unsure as to how much governmnt exertion was going on and how much the various kwans WANTED to unite (and to what degree). As for all styles and organizations being involved, I don't know. I have never heard of Hapkido, Kuk Sool, etc. even TRYING to unite with the KTA and Gen. Choi. It does seem to be limited to the Kong soo do type styles (as far as I can tell). >Ryu Pa natural? Yes, we're by nature social, however, egos once >involved >can do some amazing things to organizations. I have seen >the same Soo >Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan forms performed by Tae Kwon Do Moo >Duk Kwan >practitioners and they are so close, yet they are >definitely different. I >think perhaps Ryu Pa refers more to the >technique side of the arts while >philosophically, the goal of the >martial artists across the many, in this >case Tang Soo Do, >organizations has not changed. I was applying your concept of Ryu Pa more to the organizational aspects of martial arts, not necessarily the techniques. It is interesting, however that for the MDK's 50th anniversary GM Hwang held a big "Family Reunion" over in Korea. I saw adds for this in the various MA magazines and thought "What a great idea." Did you (or any of the other list members) attend? I would really be interested in knowing if any MDK Taekwon-Do people from KOREA were there (not just TSD/SBD). Taekwon, Chris >Enjoyed it! >Soo Bahk! >Cliff Vaught ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:59:22 PST Subject: the_dojang: Karate vs. Kung Fu >Hello once again, I was just wondering if anyone could tell me what >the >difference is between Karate and Kung fu. I know that they are >alot >different I just dont know exactly why. > >Thanks, >Kadin Well, first of all Karate is from Okinawa (and secondarily Japan) and Kung-Fu is from China. Also, both terms actually cover a wide variety of styles. For example, Karate has Shotokan, Wado-Ryu, Goju Ryu, Uechi Ryu, Kyokushin Kai, Shorin Ryu, etc. They are unarmed styles of combat (generally speaking) although many instructors also inclde Kobudo (weapons training) in their curriculum. Kung Fu styles, on the other hand, include Wing Chun, Praying Mantis, Choy Li Fut, Hung Gar, White Eyebrow, Eagle Claw, etc. These styles almost always include weapons techniques within their actual syllabus. To say "Karate is a hard and linear while Kung Fu is soft and flowing" is an incredible generalization (and often inaccurate). As I said Karate and Kung Fu are both general terms. To have a real Compare/Contrast it seems that you'd have to specify specific styles. For example, Kyokushin Kai versus Praying Mantis. Taekwon, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 09:42:15 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: budo, mudo, muye It's amusing how coincidences occur I was in a conversation about this on Sunday. When I first walked into my instructors dojang he took a lot of effort to explain to me that what I was in for was warrior arts and not a sport. He was worried I wanted to learn Kumdo (Kendo) and not what he was offering which was Hai Dong Gumdo, a Korean answer to the real uses of live blades. He described it at that time as being mudo as he realized early in our pantomime/charades/scribble/spell conversation that I already knew what 'do' meant. I guess at the meaning of mu and was proven right later. Now it is a few years later and I have used the term 'mudo' with a few Koreans with varying degress of success. Some understood and some didn't. Over the weekend I went to a cutting lesson in the hinterlands and got into a conversation with an english speaker during the required feast afterwards. He was able to explain to me that the Koreans prefer to focus on muye rather than mudo. He phrased it as the Chinese following musool or "warrior techniques", the Japanese following mudo (budo) or "warrior ways" and the Koreans as following muye or "warrior manners." Does this help or hinder? Anthony Boyd - Swordsman and Teacher http://victorian.fortunecity.com/operatic/739 ICQ# 45348443 ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:31:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #574 ******************************** Support the USTU by joining today! US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.