From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #598 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 13 Dec 1999 Vol 06 : Num 598 In this issue: the_dojang: Don't fear the list the_dojang: Off to Korea the_dojang: Music at tournaments. the_dojang: One step.... the_dojang: Re: Regarding One Step Sparring the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #596 the_dojang: Lack of hand techniques in TKD sparring=Ron Bain the_dojang: standards, rank and achievement the_dojang: Ron's contribution the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:38:46 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Don't fear the list "Yet it does bother me GREATLY that men, women, and children have apparently been harassed and threatened simply because they post to this list. So sad..." As you know Ray, I am one of those people. It started with a simple "caution" that was sent to me and it blew up into all out riot. All I can say to those who don't post to this list for fear of being kicked off another list, please ask yourself this; What is the price of knowledge? If it costs you your freedom, no matter how minute it is, the it is far too high. As Ray knows, and has been quite supportive, and some others on this list, I started my own list as well. People are encouraged to post and ask questions to as many MA lists that they feel comfortable with. That is how they learn. My list, Ray's lists or any other people's list is not the end word on any subject. There are some great minds here as well as the other list that is in question. What one person may not be able to answer another person might. The point is, I have yet to see Ray tell anyone that if they post somewhere else, then don't post here. There is a message there people. Knowledge is to be shared and distibuted without constraints or fear. Also remember that the list is made up of many individuals not just one person. Please do not pass judgement due to one voice. Anyway, I coming down from my caffine, so I need to refuel. Thanks for the time and Ray, you are doing a fine job. Jeremy MACS ------------------------------ From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:00:15 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Off to Korea Well, today will be my last day of posting to the list until I return from Korea next year. I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanaka (sp) Joyous Kwanza, and if you're an Atheist, have a nice day. 8?) Take care to all, count your blessings and keep the true spirit of the holidays in your heart while you battle your fellow man for the toy of the year. Good wishes to all. Jeremy MACS ------------------------------ From: "Oeyvind Saeter" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:42:49 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Music at tournaments. I have good experience with music at tournaments - as long as i is = played in breaks, between rounds, before the fight etc. Music during the = fight is not so good as it may make it difficoult to hear the judge, = teammates, audience, bell etc. If there is several fights in the same hall (as it usually is before the = finals) - then music is good to pump up the adrenaline before the fights = start and in natural breaks. When there is one and one fight (finals = etc.) then a good DJ can make the little extra to put a fight into the = books... ..... and light may also put a litte extra to the finale! ..... and it you have the posibillities to run videoprojectors with = results and some with replays of fights (need a good videophotograph and = a good producer), porints etc... well - then it starts to get = interresting=20 (ecp. in breaking and special techniques) - and a bit expencive :-( oes, Norway ------------------------------ From: "Oeyvind Saeter" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:49:59 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: One step.... There is few schools that I have experienced have good street related = one steps as basic (or written) stylabus - but there is many students in = those schools that practice streetrelated one steps.=20 What I have learned - and what I teach - is that you must use your = imagination and compose your own one steps. Not any fancy ones, but = "simple" and effective - preferably with a good self defence view - that = reflects your level. A blue/red belt do therefore practice simple one = steps (easy lock, kicks etc) while the BB "must" put in some more joint = locks, realistic atacks ("no" gunnun so najunde jirugi) and throws and = controll-locks. Just my 2C. oes ------------------------------ From: d.d.parker@juno.com Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:08:59 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Regarding One Step Sparring At my current school, we are taught one steps in an effort to improve our tournament skills. An individual throws a technique and we are to respond with an appropriate "tournament" counter technique. There is no self defense in our curriculum at all, which to me is disheartening. While some tournament techniques can be used for self defense, I feel this is a problem with the curriculum of our school. Cheers, Daniel ------------------------------ From: "Chuck Sears" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:58:29 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #596 > > From: Ray Terry > Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:59:31 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: the_dojang: weapons training question > > > My question (finally!) is this, at what point do you receive weapons training > > in your school and what weapons are taught? > > I personally haven't seen too much in the way of serious weapons training > in TKD / HKD schools. Perhaps something like KSW is different, but IMHO > you don't learn a weapon working with it for a ten mins each class or even > for an entire class every other week. You learn it by working with it in > each and every class, for the entire class, for a year or three. Just like > groundfighting, you learn it by rolling on the mat for several hours a > week, every week for a couple years. Or perhaps 10 hours a day, day after > day for several weeks. I agree up to a point. If you are trying to master a weapon, I agree wholeheartedly. But if you are not, then training with it an hour or so a week is quite acceptable. The ATA introduced weapons training with its Protech system several years back. The basic concept is not to make us experts with the weapon, simply to make us knowledgable about it and give us the ability to defend against it. And it is all tied back to our TKD training, in terms of stances, balance, attack and defense strategies, etc. I guess the best way to describe it is to compare it to college. TKD is our major; the other martial arts, such as sticks, groundfighting, etc. are electives which give us a much more rounded, versatile education. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:22:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Lack of hand techniques in TKD sparring=Ron Bain Mr. Bain stated: Response: Are you the Mr. Bain that has done an outstanding job on the Korean Martial Arts website ? Great work. Your point above is also outstanding. When I reviewed a few tournaments in Pusan, S. Korea, I noticed an American doing quite well against his Korean sparring counterparts. He was a gifted fighter who was able to use hands and feet. He obviously had boxing training. I recall that he actually had points deducted when he tagged a few Korean counterparts with great hand techniques. Now, as you noted above--extrapolate that to a real fight. Recall in any sport that what you train is what you become. So, if you are involved in a sparring situation where you don't use hands, what occurs when you take that Korean trained individual and place him in a Western environment against boxers or full contact fighters who use hands and feet. Keep up the good work. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Laura Kamienski Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:36:15 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: standards, rank and achievement Hello all, I have a question which has been nagging at me for quite some time now. I think that above all else, personal achievement is the most important aspect of practicing martial arts and that rank should be based on an individual's own improvement and not on a comparison of others at that rank. However, how do you balance a minimum standard of proficiency with that of excellence? It seems to me that since most schools need students to stay alive, it would be imperative that it meet some sort of overall standard within the field of martial arts in general. If it failed, serious students would look elsewhere to practice. So, if rank would be solely based on personal achievement, how do you prevent the minimum standard from declining so that the average student quality ends up following suit? Thanks for your comments. Laura - -- lkamiens@ptd.net lkamnski@bucknell.edu http://home.switchboard.com/LKamienski ____________________________________________________ "The destination is not the purpose of a journey; death is not the purpose of life." -Thich Nhat Hanh ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:46:54 PST Subject: the_dojang: Ron's contribution From: "Ron Bain" Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:24:17 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Contributing >First, for all the WTF/KKW practitioners. How many of you have > >experimented with the WTF style of sparring? I have some serious > >reservations about consistently sparring with a no hands emphasis, >and >have come up with the following two types of sparring to >emphasise using >more hand techniques while practicing Olympic type >sparring. I was with a WTF school back in my college days and we did a lot of USTU sanctioned tournaments. I was also a little disconcerted about the lack of hand techniques, coming from an ITF-style background. But here we come to the discussion of whether or not sparring is self-defense and, if it is, what rules should be used to best encourage a self-defense type response in a match. I think the WTF sparring leaves something to be desired in this area but I do realize that, among the better technicians, getting hit by one or more of their kicks can be devastating. >1) Same as WTF sparring, but giving more points for scoring punches >(& >high kicks). eg- >Any Body kick: 1 point >Any Head kick: 2 points (optional if you discourage head kicks) >Any Punch to Mid Mid Section: 3 points (2 points if you omit head >kicks) >Observation: You'll see MORE Cover Punching :-) Didn't they try this a while back for some TV special? >2) Combination of WTF sparring & Open sparring. >Use WTF rules but add no contact head punches. (non stop continuous >sparring) >Any kick: 1 point >Any punch: 2 points >Observation: You'll see LESS Lunging Backfists. :-) >If I am not mistake, ITF (or some of it's off-shoots) may be using >(experimenting?) with a variation of #2. Any ITFers out there? From what I understand the ITF rules are (basically): 1 Point: Any hand technique on the ground (mid- or high-section), any standing kick (mid-section), AND a perfect block )breaks the opponent's balance!). I don't know if the last rule is still used but I always thought it was a great idea since martial arts have to do with SELF DEFENSE! 2 Points: Any standing kick to the high-section, any flying kick to the mid-section, any flying hand techniques to the high-section (they're sweet). 3 Points: Any flying kick to the high-section. >For all you people who spar non contact...have you experimented with >full >contact sparring? If so, what do you do? I used to do some hogu fighting back in college (graduated '93) so I'm not that current but what usually happened was I focused more on keeping them in my outside range with kicks. Since I'm only 5'5" at this range I was only the inside range of a lot of my opponents'. I didn't think I was at a real disadvantage coming from a non-contact background. Of course my school stressed executing good techniques over the so-called "open tournament" idea of "tag." Taekwon, Chris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:47:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #598 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.