From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #600 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 14 Dec 1999 Vol 06 : Num 600 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Sparring/Fighting the_dojang: Re: Lack of hand techniques in TKD sparring the_dojang: Re: One Step Sparring the_dojang: romanization article the_dojang: Re: Music at tournaments the_dojang: Sparring the_dojang: first snowfall in Seoul the_dojang: bullies the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #599 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Steffen Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:09:34 -0700 (MST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Sparring/Fighting > From: "tink" > > Having started my TKD life in the ITF and now training with a WTF > GM, I have been exposed to both styles of fighting. Personally, I > prefer ITF rules and fighting as opposed to WTF. I get warned at > least twice every tourney for punching to the face...something > neither organization allows, To the best of my knowledge, punching to the face has always been legal in ITF tournaments; in fact, AFAIK _jumping_ hand techniques to the head are encouraged. Am I missing something? Of course, the amount of _contact_ to the head is a different question entirely... ;-) > but I do enjoy participating in both. Open tourneys, which > variably allow sweeps, takedowns, floor techniques, and hand > techniques to the head, are certainly the most challenging. Try a Japanese-style tournament sometime; USA-National Karate Federation rules are _very_ challenging. Light contact, but _very_ minimal pads. Requires _lots_ of control. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Steffen Wave after wave will flow with the tide Dept. of Physics And bury the world as it does Colorado State University Tide after tide will flow and recede steffend@lamar.colostate.edu Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi ------------------------------ From: "Ron Bain" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:09:47 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Lack of hand techniques in TKD sparring Ken McDonough > Response: Are you the Mr. Bain that has done an outstanding job on the > Korean Martial Arts website ? Great work. Hi Ken, Yes, that's me. Glad you enjoyed the site. Thanks. Ken the wrote, Your point above is also outstanding. When I reviewed a few tournaments in Pusan, S. Korea, I noticed an American doing quite well against his Korean sparring counterparts. He was a gifted fighter who was able to use hands and feet. He obviously had boxing training. I recall that he actually had points deducted when he tagged a few Korean counterparts with great hand techniques. Now, as you noted above--extrapolate that to a real fight. Recall in any sport that what you train is what you become. So, if you are involved in a sparring situation where you don't use hands, what occurs when you take that Korean trained individual and place him in a Western environment against boxers or full contact fighters who use hands and feet. I wrote: I totally agree with your statement above. "You are what you practice". Being a KKW BB, I have some difficulty with this. I think it's more important to train/spar for a street confrontation on a consistent basis than it is for competition. Especially around this area where there is very little WTF competition. This doesn't necessarily mean that one abandon WTF sparring. I enjoy it, my two kids do, as well as most of my small group of students. I feel that there is a time and place for it...pre competition season, and special sparring classes. In-class sparring will be a variation on the two styles of sparring I described earlier. Programming to rely on hands, elbow, knees, etc takes priority over competition AND feet. Ron <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Ron Bain's Taekwondo Hapkido Web Guide http://www.cyberbeach.net/~bainr/martial.htm <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: "Ron Bain" Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:36:43 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: One Step Sparring IMATC@aol.com wrote: Here is a question to throw out. In many arts, one step sparring techniques embody the essence of self-defense in their art. How many people out there feel that their school's one steps have good street defense, defend against realistic attacks (for example vs. a hook puch), and can be performed by most people effectively? Is there anyone who can think of a system or school that provides excellent one steps other than your own? Thank you. Hi "IMATC", Just a quick thought on one-steps. I don't necessarily thing that it's the techniques used, as much as it is the way you practice them. Ok...that might be stretchibg it. I know there's a lot of "outdated" one-steps out there, but I feel that it's more important that you practice your one-step sparring in a more realistic manner. For example: Take your personal favorite one-step...any one. Try it like you normally do. If you are a TKD practitioner, chances are you probably do it like so: Your partner Ki-Yups when he is ready You Ki-Yup when you are ready Your partner attacks right after you Ki-Yup You perform your technique Take that same one-step. Put on head gear, hand pads...mouth guard optional ;-) Now, try it like this: You and your partner square off in one-step fashion. Neither will Ki-Yup when ready. Your opponent will attack you WHEN he wants, at full speed, trying to tag you on the head (face is too dangerous) You will try to use your favorite one-step against his attack...full speed...without warning. Try it with any other one-step you like, against punches, jabs, kicks, etc. Let us know your results. :-) I think this will put new meaning into your "one-steps" Ron <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Ron Bain's Taekwondo Hapkido Web Guide http://www.cyberbeach.net/~bainr/martial.htm <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:39:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: romanization article Forwarding. Ray - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 06:55:59 -1000 From: Bryan R Ross - -from the Korea Herald: 12/14/1999 The Korea Herald Herald Forum Linguist behind new Romanization plan speaks out for new system After enduring weeks of grilling and an onslaught of criticism, the creator of the new Romanization proposal is finally speaking out, trying to explain the need for an "upgraded" system for writing Korean in English. "The new system is intended to present the true linguistic integrity and identity of the Korean language to the world," said Shim Jae-kee, director of the National Academy of the Korean Language (NAKL). REST OF ARTICLE: http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/news/1999/12/__04/19991214_0419.htm ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:37:48 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Music at tournaments One of the best tournaments I ever attended was the "Top Five" which is a big patterns event held every two years in Germany. Only the best three competitors from each age category from each country can attend. They did a great job with music, lights, smoke effects etc. I remember the opening ceremony, when I was leading the Polish team from the dark corridor into the sports hall, which was also dark, there was only one light pointing to the coming teams; all I saw was the light with Vangelis music playing in the background and thunderous applause from all the spectators (and there was plenty of them). That was just great. I think this is great for both the competitors and spectators. During the competition itself, there was no music, but they did a number of good demos between the categories and they even did fireworks in the sports hall during the awards ceremony, again with light & sound effects. Another similar event is the "Euro-Cup" also in Germany, also with some nice music and fireworks. Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: "Simon Goldie" Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:42:05 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Sparring I'd just like to chip in with the sparring rules we use in the TAGB, which is affiliated to the ITF. Our tournaments tend to be point-stop sparring for 5 kup and below. Scoring is 1 point for any hand technique (head contact is allowed), 2 points for a kick to the body and 3 points for any kick to the head. Once you get above 5 kup it becomes continuous sparring with the same scoring system but extra points can be picked up for knocking your oponent to the floor. As far as our pre-arranged sparring goes, we have 3-step, 2-step and 1-Step which are really to improve distance and timing. However we also have semi-free sparring where the attacker can attack with any technique, whilst you can block/evade and counter with any technique(s). In my opinion any form of sparring whether pre-arranged or free can be applied to self defense - it improves your timing and distancing skills as well as having a set of techniques instantly accessible. Remember that under a real attack you can be so frightened that it is hard to think, thats where the ingrained pre-arranged techniques come to play, because they've become natural and instinctive. I've had situations where someone has grabbed and spun me around to throw a punch, only for me to block and counter it without even having to think. On the flip side however, I also had a friend do something similar because he though it would be a laugh to see how good I was (yep we'd been down the pub)...I managed to half-pull my punch, but I still winded him Simon Goldie simon.goldie@westussex.gov.uk ------------------------------ From: kim jones Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 04:27:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: first snowfall in Seoul Uhh, this is completely off-topic, but for those of you residing in the city of Seoul or surburbs of...you might recall hearing the loudest clap outside at about 2030 Tuesday evening. For those of you like me who didn't investigate, the prettiest snow lay on the ground (if it stuck like it did here on Yongsan)...exactly how much damage would it do to go make a couple of snow angels??? Hehehehehehehe. Those of you living in Uijongbu and Tongduchon have already seen snow. I'm excited cuz I haven't seen snow in 4 years, so you'll have to excuse me. :) Kim Jones __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Tkdtiger@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:20:52 EST Subject: the_dojang: bullies I wonder sometimes if you guys really listen to what you preach. How do you teach a student to stand up to a bully? This person is a bully. >> Donna - As we all have dealt with this person (to use the word loosely), I think it is not so much of not standing up to a bully as frankly being a waste of time and energy - ignore him - it pisses him off more. ------------------------------ From: "Vaught, Clifford (CLF N6Y2K8)" Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:14:25 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #599 I must have missed a message - I apologize. I don't know what "Donna" is responding to but I have a comment on one statement - "I wonder sometimes if you guys really listen to what you preach. How do you teach a student to stand up to a bully?" Martial arts, to me, is not about "stand[ing] up to a bully". If the issue is freedom to express thoughts and you find yourself in a situation, like this list and this Glenn guy, walk away - i.e., quit the list. Martial, as explained to me, breaks down to "stop sword" or "stop conflict". Standing up to a bully, as a first measure, probably creates more conflict than it stops. The rest of her message I wholeheartedly agree with. Ray - thanks for the open forum. I practice Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and outside of our Federation, there is no where else to trade experiences and knowledge with our counterparts in the Korean arts. Cliff Vaught - -----Original Message----- From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com [mailto:the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com] Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 8:20 PM To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #599 From: d g Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:33:11 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: bullies > From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:38:46 -0600 > Subject: the_dojang: Don't fear the list > > "Yet it does bother me GREATLY that men, women, and children have > apparently been harassed and threatened simply because they post to this > list. So sad..." > > As you know Ray, I am one of those people. It started with a simple > "caution" that was sent to me and it blew up into all out riot. All I can > say to those who don't post to this list for fear of being kicked off > another list, please ask yourself this; What is the price of knowledge? If > it costs you your freedom, no matter how minute it is, the it is far too > high. > Now I am sad and also angry. I wonder sometimes if you guys really listen to what you preach. How do you teach a student to stand up to a bully? This person is a bully. Poor one at that. " play my way or you will not be my friend and I will not play with you anymore." "Do not play with so and so or I will not play with you anymore." I stood up to him and lost my friendship with him. I am saddened by it but will not stand down. This is wrong. Tell him where the B S*&^s in the woods and ignore him. If he deletes ya, oh well..there r other lists. What is so dang important about him anyway that has ppl not posting for fear of his wrath? I did not want nothing from him. No cerificates, no special favors, no nothing. If that is his price for these things I do not want it. There are other paths to achieve it. It may take longer but I am a patient woman. Donna ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:45:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #600 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.