From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #608 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 20 Dec 1999 Vol 06 : Num 608 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Black Belt Significance the_dojang: Re: Regarding black belt being a beginning. the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #606 the_dojang: Re: V6 #606: Black Belt significance the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:33:08 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Black Belt Significance The One and Only... Tink wrote: << Well...her is my humble opinion on the significance of the Black Belt: For what is worth: Each person is an individual with physical and mental limitations. Judge each by their improvements in accordance with their individual abilities and capabilities. What may be, for example, a 10% improvement for one person, may be an 80% improvement for another. IMVHO: What makes a Black Belt? How much they continue to mature, how much knowledge they gain, how much they learn, how well they apply their maturity, knowledge, and learning, and how well they pass it on. >> Well Tink, now we know why you're "the one and only!" You gave us a well-reasoned, thoughtful, and caring definition. Thank you. Sally Baughn cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: d.d.parker@juno.com Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:18:33 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Regarding black belt being a beginning. Could someone please explain to me how real learning and training doesn't begin in taekwondo until one reaches black belt level status? It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. What is one doing during those first two to three years of practice that dosen't qualify as real learning and training? Are the basics I am learning now as a lowly green belt of no real value? This whole train of thought really confuses me. Cheers, Daniel ------------------------------ From: "Vaught, Clifford (CLF N6Y2K8)" Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:29:58 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #606 Lots of great discussion about the significance of the Black Belt. I would have to differ in opinion with John - I don't believe motivation without tangible goals works. Sure, there is always a sector in the world population that can be properly motivated to achieve a purely intangible accomplishment, and John sounds like one of them. However, first of all I don't believe ANYONE practices a patterned set of movements because it's on the path to a belt - you practice the whole package. In Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan, a structure syllabus exists so that a student knows at every point in his/her training what the technical standard is. It takes four years of consistent training (time on the mat is now a factor, as well as, in our school, comments from the parents and school teachers of our younger students) to achieve Cho Dan. The, just like Dale's Federation, add an additional year between each successive Dan test (2 years for E, 3 for Sam, etc.). The bottomline is why are you training? Is it a bad reason to train because you want to achieve your black belt? I don't think so. In introductory interview with my instructor almost 7 years ago, he asked me why I wanted to train and my answer was to complete my black belt. ALONG THE WAY I learned a lot more about the martial aspect of the arts. Additionally, I happen to love forms, one-steps, and self-defense. I'm not fond of sparring, mostly because I've never felt like I was all that great at it. Should that disqualify a person? I believe you learn more of the martial aspects of the arts through the forms, especially if you understand more than just the moves. If I just practice martial arts because I want to learn how to fight, I'd question that path. Finally, not all of us are physically capable of doing many of the "metrics" or "standards" other writers are mentioning. I'm 41 with advanced arthritis in my hips. You won't find me doing some of the more flamboyant jumping techniques those young, healthy, 20-30 year olds can do. Does that make me less of a MARTIAL artist? I think not. Soo Bahk!! Cliff Vaught - -----Original Message----- From: "John Bennett" Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:29:37 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Forget About Belts People who worry about belts have always one eye on the belt instead of both eyes on the practice. Forget about belts. A belt is not an acheivement, more effective technique is. If you are practicing a patterned set of movements because perfecting them is the path to a belt, you are on the wrong path. John Bennett ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:04:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V6 #606: Black Belt significance >There are TOO many students who receive their Temp and drop out. Amen to that. I saw this happen over and over as I progressed through the gups. At the time I blamed it on the teaching load. Our "temps" are termed "cho dan bo" and were, until our school shrunk, expected to teach 1-2 classes per week. Well, most of them were only attending the number of classes they were expected to instruct. That made it a little difficult to work on the techniques they needed for their own test. I've since concluded that this was but one factor among several affecting the drop-out rate. The cho dan bo belt scheme in our belt system is red with two white and one black stripes. Not much of a status symbol;>) "Metrics", BTW, merely means that some quality is measured against a standard. === Tang Soo! Scott ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 06:48:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #608 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Martial Arts Resource, California Taekwondo Standard disclaimers apply.