From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V6 #612 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 21 Dec 1999 Vol 06 : Num 612 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Giving bad news the_dojang: The General the_dojang: taunting dragons the_dojang: Re: gup ranks unimportant? nah. the_dojang: Re: black vs. gup training importance the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~725 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, California Taekwondo, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 KMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dbuehrer@carl.org Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:24:44 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Giving bad news >From: "Jason Swanson" > >This evening I had to inform one of my students that she did not pass her >last testing, which was for her Temporary Black Belt. I have a small >school, and this was the first time I have had to hold back one of the >children. This particular girl is 11, and was very distraut about the whole >situation. I told her prior to the actual class and promotion ceremony, and >she left the room crying and did not return. I am not sure if she will >return to my class or not. This is the price I must pay as the instructor >to ensure that all of my students meet the minimum standards. The >unfortunate thing is that she was able to do all of the things required of >her prior to the testing, but was unable to come through at the actual >testing. This will be a real test of her maturity and understanding of what >it means to percevere. I'm not a black belt yet (two years to go :), but I am a supervisor of 5 years experience (that'd make me a 2nd Dan Supervisor? ;) and go through something similar every year when I have to evaluate my employees, so I can sympathize with you. Excuse me while I ramble a bit :) My approach is to be as honest as possible. IMO I am doing them a disservice if I don't let them know if they are failing to meet expectations. I also make sure I know what my expectations are, where the bar is so to speak. If I don't know what my expectations are, I can't possibly evaluate my employees. I also evaluate my own expectations and make sure that they are realistic and appropriate. I also try to make evaluations without being critical. Example: I expect employees to show up to work on time. If they don't I communicate the problem and my expectation, "I expect you to be at work on time. If you continue to be late your job will be in jeopardy." Not, "You're always late. What is your problem?" I also try to work with them to overcome issues, prompting them to come up with solutions. In the above example I would ask the employee if they knew why they were having trouble making it to work on time and what they thought they could to do make it to work on time. Sometimes I find out that they have no control over the issue (right now the local bus system is having problems and employees that ride the bus arrive to work late quite a bit), in which case I will make adjustments if I can (if they arrive late I don't make an issue of it and ask them if they can work late to make up the time they missed). Most of the time an employee will take it well when I tell them that they are not meeting expectations, and what my expectations are. But sometimes they don't. In such cases I try to point out all their positive skills and abilities. I tell them that I'm not angry or mad, or passing judgement, but that I have a job to do and that I am expected to employee employees that meet expectations. I tell them that when an employee isn't meeting expectations I am expected to resolve the issue, and that my goal is to resolve it in a positive manner for all parties concerned. Sometimes an evaluation or communication doesn't go well and it's my fault (never, ever, communicate a failure to meet expectations in writing), in which case I apologize and try to learn from my mistake. There have been a few times when an employee just didn't work out. One employee was a single mother with a son who had health issues, and she was consistently unable to work her schedule to the point that sometimes she would miss an entire week. Aside from that issue she was an exceptional person: intelligent, faster learner, positive personality, hard worker, etc. But I had to terminate her employment. She was mature enough that she understood that. But it wasn't easy for either of us. In your case you did what you had to do. It's hard that even though she possessed all the skills and had the ability, that she didn't pass the test. But one of the requirements of being promoted is passing the belt test. I would suggest talking to her asking her why she had problems on the test. Was she nervous? Was she ill? Was she tired (maybe didn't get enough sleep the night before). Did she eat poorly that day? Was she injured? Was she just "not with it"? (Everyone has a bad day, and sometimes that bad day coincides with a test.) If you can determine the reason ask her what she can do to address it. Encourage her to re-test. Let her know that she can do it, that you've seen her do it in class, and that you have faith in her. If possible, I would arrange a re-test within a week or two. IMHO its not an instructor's responsibility to just teach his/her students, but to lead and encourage them along the MA path. To Life, - -David Buehrer 6th Gup, Hapkido - -- "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know and the more I want to learn." - -Einstein ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:34:36 PST Subject: the_dojang: The General Let me preface this by saying that there were some things in the article in TKD Times that I found a little odd. But let's remember the Oriental mind is a little different from the Occidental mind. Also, I have only had the pleasure of meeting the General once at a seminar and am quite confident that he has no idea of who I am ;) . Also, I am not affiliated to him in any way. >I read the article you are referring to in Taekwondo times. I found >it to >be interesting and a little bit disturbing. After reading the >article, it seemed to me that General Cho has a large ego and is a >little >paranoid regarding supposed conspiracies against him. While I >sincerely >mean no disrespect to the General, he gives the impression >in the >interview (to me at least) that he alone is responsible for >the >development of Taekwondo and that none of the other Kwan's played >as >important a role in it's development as he did. This is a point >which of >course can be argued back and forth regarding who did what >and when, and >the significance of everything, but he did seem to take >an awful lot of >credit for himself and made very little mention of >the contributions of >others. Yes, this does seem to be the case. I guess this gets back to the question of whether or not the person who named the art is the founder of the art (Won, Kuk Lee made a similar claim in TKD Times last year). If he sees himself as the founder of Taekwon-Do the ego is somewhat understandable "Hey, people are running around taking credit for my art!" Couple this with the fact that he was an important military figure and it becomes even more understandable. >Regarding my belief that the General is a little bit paranoid, I do >not >believe that people went around telling airport security >officials that he >"was the head of a terrorist organization which was >trying to kill the >Korean President". And even if they did, what >justification would they >have to believe such nonsense. General Cho >is a public figure who hardly >fits the profile of a terrorist. I agree that the General doesn't fit the profile of a terrorist. However, after traveling to the DPRK I'm sure the ROK government wasn't so sure. It's very easy to dismiss this out of hand now AFTER the fall of Communism in most countries and its severe limitation to only a few nations. But when Gen. Choi went to the DPRK in 1982 it was the height of the cold war. I have met several Korean Masters who have basically said that the Gen. was a Communist (despite fighting against them in the Korean War). I also know a guy who went to SK for a Taekwon-Do Friendship Tour several years ago (late 80s, early 90s). When the Koreans saw him doing tuls they asked him "Why are you doing communist forms?" So, whatever the General's political leanings really are if the ROK perceives him as a Communist it seems likely that they will perceive him in a bad light and possibly as a traitor. Couple this to the fact that he was involved in a military coup and it gets a little easier to believe his story, especially since the President was now someone he had Court Martialed and sentenced to death. >Also, how could the Korean government pressure the "owners of >gymnasiums >into denying" his organization the use of "their >facilities for seminars". > What does the owner of a gymnasium in the >United States, Turkey or >Denmark care what the Korean government >says? Why would the Korean >government really care about a weekend >Taekwondo seminar? I don't know if they would care about a seminar per se. I imagine they would care about a former military leader turned (supposed) traitor, however. >Next, if the Korean government really kidnapped his son in an effort >to >convince the General to return to Korea, I think that a lot of >American >tax dollars have been grossly misspent in supporting these >leaders. For >some reason though, I have a hard time believing this as >well. But if >they did, and the General truly chose "Taekwon-Do over >my son", then I >feel he deserves whatever hardships he has endured >during his exile as I >personally find his attitude reprehensible. This comment about his son struck me as rather odd and somewhat disturbing. However, it's not as though the US hasn't supported shady characters in the past. Also, we have no idea whether or not the General's son was in Korea, Canada, or what. We don't know if the General at least thought he would be killed in he returned to Korea or if he thought that his son would be released if he did so. Granted I totally think he SHOULD have gone back for his son but it's easy to tell people what to do when we're not in their shoes. Also, from what I've seen and read recently he son seems fine. >I realize that General Cho comes from a different generation and >culture >than myself and that his mind set and view of the world are >foreign to me >and difficult to understand. And I also acknowledge >that my assessment of >him could be totally off-base and perhaps >everything has happened just as >he described it. If so, I apologize >in advance for my ignorance. I did >enjoy reading the article though, >and found it to be very interesting. General Choi is indeed a man from a different culture and a different time. He is now older than the majority of Taekwon-Do masters out there (Won, Kuk Lee and I believe Hwang Ki being notable exceptions). It seems that even to many Koreans his views would be somewhat anachronistic. But then again he has done such notable things as promote an American to 9th dan (GM Sereff) and an American woman to 7th dan (Master Renee Sereff). In these areas he is certaintly more open minded than some Koreans I have met. He is, like most of us, a mixed bag. >My 2 Cents, Daniel Just thought I'd share some reflections. Chris PS I found it very interesting that in one of the pictures in the article the ITC President (can't remember his name off hand) was shown attending a recent seminar by the General. Any of you ITC'ers know about this? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: d g Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:09:44 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: taunting dragons > Barry McConnell > Taunt not the dragon, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup. > > No guts, no glory. Sorry, I just couldn't help it. pfft!! Donna ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:15:55 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: gup ranks unimportant? nah. In a message dated 12/20/99 8:53:28 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: " Could someone please explain to me how real learning and training doesn't begin in taekwondo until one reaches black belt level status? It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. What is one doing during those first two to three years of practice that dosen't qualify as real learning and training? Are the basics I am learning now as a lowly green belt of no real value? This whole train of thought really confuses me. Cheers, Daniel " hi daniel, first of all, i agree with you. it is a confusing topic. however, ever level of training is of importance. your first day til you last day (and for most of us, that will be the day we die) are all of importance. IMHO, they are all of equal importance. without any of those levels of training, one will be incomplete. you cannot reach black belt without having first learned everything at white through red. you cannot be a master without all of that, plus the first four dan ranks. i dont think anyone is intentionally discounting gup ranks. however, some of the statements that have been made might seem to do so. it seemed as though they had, in my opinion. all rank achievements are a personal success to the martial artist and his/her instructor. a friend of mine used to say, in regard to life in general and not MA, "you are exactly where you need to be right now". i believe this applies in MAs quite well. there is an important lesson to be learned, no matter what your level. no rush should be made to hurry on. no reluctance should be had on moving ahead. no regret should be felt on your past training. learn today's lesson as it will be of the most importance today. and it will be the foundation for the lesson learned tomorrow. with that said, how can gup ranks be any less important than dan? they cant. each is vitally important in the chain of knowledge and skill that takes us further every time we train. sometimes, i think, in trying to be humble, and knowing "what is a black belt?" we unintentionally dishonour those who are gup ranked. the first dan is not simply a beginner. it is someone who is at a new beginning. there is a difference. he pays respect to his past, respect to his future, and knows he still has a lot to learn from his seniors. but, IMHO, he can still take pride in the accomplishment of getting to where he is as long as it is tempered with humility. daniel, i hope this has helped. i dont believe anyone here would purposefully discount all that you have accomplished in your training. melinda ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:27:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: black vs. gup training importance In a message dated 12/20/99 11:57:53 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: " You weren't responding to my post directly, but I said essentially the same thing. I don't mean to imply that training to black belt level is not important. It is important, since it is the time when one learns the basic foundation of an art. However, after dan level is attained, I believe that you really begin to learn the essence of an art. In way of explanation, go to a mixed gup class and just watch. Then go to a dan class and watch. The difference in focus, concentration and spirit should be readily evident. Another way of looking at it might be to compare the number of people who begin training with the number who continue to train after getting their first black belt. I've heard some say 1 in 1000, though I personally think it might be more like 1 in 100 to 1 in 250. This might be the reason for the difference. Danny Dunn " i understand what youre saying there. we might've been arguing semantics. :) melinda ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:12:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V6 #612 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com ===================================================================== To unsubscribe from this digest, the_dojang-digest, send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in pub/the_dojang/digests. 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