From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #22 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 12 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 022 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: 10th the_dojang: Ordering the Hapkido Hoshinsul video the_dojang: Re: Organization of Techniques the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #21 the_dojang: Re: 10th the_dojang: Hapkido Concepts the_dojang: Re: V7 #21: Hapkido Hoshinsul the_dojang: Breaking news on the investigation into Emily's murder Re: the_dojang: Re: 10th [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~735 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:41:49 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: 10th At 12:38 11/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Do we know for sure if there are any WTF 10th Dans? (We've been over this >before, but new developments do occur.) I think that there are several 10th dans from the kwans. At least I can name a guy from Jidokwan - Lee Chong Woo. From the Kukkiwon, no true GM has achieved it. However, I believe that it has been awarded to at least one Korean president in addition to Julio Samaranch of the IOC. I am not 100% sure of Kim, but several people have claimed this. At the very least - 10th dan has not been awarded by the Kukkiwon for technical achievements and/or excellence in TKD. Sincerely, Anders Torvill Bjorvand ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:54:16 EST Subject: the_dojang: Ordering the Hapkido Hoshinsul video >>>Just a note: Amazon shows that take about a month and a half to acquire Alain's video (if at all!) Is there a quicker way to get it? Thanks, Kevin W. Tibbs<<< Kevin, You can order directly from me for the same price. 39.95 plus 3.00 shipping (US orders, overseas is more. E-mail me for specific countries) Send to the address at the end of this message. I mail the videos out Priority mail the day or day after I recieve the money order or check. Ray can verify that he sent a check on Monday and had the video on Saturday. If you have to use a credit card, I can not accept those and you can order from Paladin Press directly. They will ship different ways, including UPS 2nd Day Air, but it costs extra. You can order from their web site at www.paladin-press.com or call 1-800-466-6868 or 1-800-392-2400 Over all, ordering from me is one of the quickest and cheapest at 3.00 for postage, and you get an autographed cover. Thanks for the comments and interest, Alain Burrese 107 Helena Court Missoula, MT 59801 ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@carl.org Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:22:50 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Organization of Techniques FWIW, here's the progression at the Dojang I go to. As a 10th Gup the first think I learned were wrist escapes. Right after we were taught a few "dirty" tricks to use if someone were to grab us by our shirt/jacket, or was trying to choke us. At the next class we were seriously introduced to stances and basic strikes and kicks. In following classes where self defense was the focus we were taught follow ups to the wrist escapes. In following classes were technique was the focus we spent time on breakfalls, stepping patterns, stances, strikes, and kicks. After about 5 weeks (10 lessons) the wrist escapes were combined with moving (back, to the side, into the attacker). These coincided with our stepping pattern (moving forward, back, left, right, and cornering out). It wasn't until I was half way through 9th Gup that I was introduced to wrist locks. Again, at first they were simple (relatively ;). Also at 9th Gup I was introduced to the Seven Set (doing thrusts, snaps, side snaps, blocks, high strikes, elbow strikes, and knee strikes from the Horse Stance). When I got to 8th Gup the wrist locks were combined with moving (hello stepping pattern :) and stances (the sound of my instructors saying "sink your weight" is engraved into my brain ;) Also at 8th Gup I started learning how to do take downs (which is just about the time I was starting to feel good about my breakfalls oddly enough ;) and spinning and crescent kicks. At 7th Gup I was introduced to moving basics (doing the Seven Set while moving). And at 6th Gup take downs have become more complex, wrist locks are becoming second nature, and I can do a halfway decent crescent kick (and my spinning kick still needs a lot of work). I'm also subjected to a variety of arm locks on a regular basis. And then there were the choking techniques (rubs his throat absentemindedly). At 5th Gup I look forward to learning Advanced Basics (a variation on the seven set with combinations while turning and spinning and moving, I believe). The basic organization appears to be: Learning to get away. Learning stances, moving, attacking, and breakfalls. Learning to get away and counter, and reinforcing stances and moving. Learning locks, and reinforcing stances and moving. Learning how to move and strike/block. Learning to lock and counter, reinforcing stances and moving. Learning to take down, reinforcing breakfalls and stances. Learning moving take downs, reinforcing stances, moving, and breakfalls. Learning how to move radically while performing strike/block combinations. To Life, - -David Buehrer 6th Gup, Hapkido http://www.users.uswest.net/~abaker3 - -- "Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday ... and all is well." ------------------------------ From: "Aaron Harmon" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:49:02 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #21 > In Danzan Ryu.?. Maybe that is where I saw it. I did Danzan Ryu at a > couple of different dojos a long time ago, but don't remember them using > this approach. Yeah, Danzan Ryu has kata techniques like 'Uki reaches for Tori's lapel, Tori applies an outward wrist lock to Uki's reaching hand' and then you are encouraged (required!) to experiment and learn variations, same technigue agains a punch, or a tackle, or a Headlock, whatever. the variations are not set in stone, just the kata. at least that is how we did it at the school i was at, other DZR schools might do it differently. I had to have 5 variations to every Yawara art for my green belt, and there are 25 if memory serves, so that would be 125 variations plus the kata 25 for 150 plus about 25 throws and 20 ground techniques or so... but that is not Korean :) Aaron ~~~~~ The method of thinking is different between the Moderates and the strange Left and bizarre Right. The Moderates go with the old axiom that: "I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." The bizarre Right says: "I disagree with what you say and I will kill you if you say it again." The strange Left says: "I disagree with what you say and I will kill myself if you say it again." ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 22:59:54 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: 10th > Do we know for sure if there are any WTF 10th Dans? (We've been over this > before, but new developments do occur.) I believe there are two Kukkiwon 10th Dans (honorary), the other being J.A. Samaranch. The question was once asked on tkd-net and from what I remember that was the answer. And also from what I heard, Dr Kim Un Yong has a very limited TKD experience as a practitioner. But I feel this is not really his job... ;) I freely admit that I am the first to give up the post of Chairman of my club to any non-martial artist who will be able to run it`s affairs well, so that I can concentrate on trainings and not on getting sponsors, paying the rent and all that stuff... Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: "G. Booth" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:05:10 +1100 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Concepts Just my thoughts on teaching Hapkido. Having a background in Original Hapkido meant learning 20+ techniques from each grab, however I found that this method took a much longer time to get proficient in variable defence. Within my organisation we look at our curriculum every 2 years and give it a shake to bring it up to date, refine and or make modifications, this guarantees that if we learn a better method the student gets that method. At the beginning of last year we implemented a concept approach to self defence which sounds very much like the discussions being held on the list now. Instead of teaching multiples from one grab we now teach 2-3 concepts for each belt, and within the concept there are 6-10 examples. However once the student has learnt the concept they are also asked to show it applied to any number of extra techniques, hence proving they understand the concept. We also make each and every student from White and above perform their concepts in a multiple attack situation. EG a white belt knows these 2 concepts: evasion and circles. So in a multiple attack situation they either evade the attack of use on of our circular releases if grabbed. When they go to the next belt they simply add concepts to there way of defence, I have found this a better way to improve the practicality of each students self defence, that being the focus in our school. Looking forward to sharing thoughts and mat time at Master Wests next seminars. Regards Geoff Booth International Hapkido Alliance Australia Hapkido Group http://hapkido.netro.com.au "The art is in the person, all we have to do is bring it out" ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:19:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V7 #21: Hapkido Hoshinsul You can get it from Alain directly or from Paladin Press. I got mine from PP (for reasons of supporting them in the face of litigation that IMO undermines freedom of speech - otherwise I would have patronized Alain) and it came in about 2 weeks or so. >Just a note: Amazon shows that take about a month and a half to acquire >Alain's >video (if at all!) Is there a quicker way to get it? === Scott ------------------------------ From: dbuehrer@carl.org Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:20:26 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: Breaking news on the investigation into Emily's murder The investigation in to Emily's murder has taken a "stunning twist". It would appear that three teenage boys broke into her house and hit her in the head with a rock while she was sleeping on the couch. She may or may not have put up a brief struggle. Afterwards they dragged her body out to the back with the intention of putting it into the Lexus, which they decided to steal. Something spooked them and two of the boys drove off in the Lexus, while the other fled on foot. The following links contain more details and community reactions. http://www.denverpost.com/news/news0112.htm http://www.insidedenver.com/news/0112slay0.shtml On the one hand this makes it even harder to comprehend. When the boyfriend was a suspect it was easier to understand the motives of a person with a history of criminal activity. But why a teenage boy would decide to kill someone in their sleep is beyond me. On the other hand I now know that Emily never had a chance to defend herself. This event does not invalidate the value of martial arts training. Even the most skilled martial artist would not have been able to defend themselves from such an attack. I'm still experiencing a little bit of shock and don't know what else to say, so I'll stop here. To Life, - -David Buehrer 6th Gup, Hapkido http://www.users.uswest.net/~abaker3 - -- "The light is reached not by turning back from the darkness, but by going through it." ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 7:13:16 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: 10th > > Do we know for sure if there are any WTF 10th Dans? (We've been over this > > before, but new developments do occur.) > > I believe there are two Kukkiwon 10th Dans (honorary), the other being J.A. > Samaranch. The question was once asked on tkd-net and from what I remember > that was the answer. But they were making that same claim prior to the Kukkiwon office holder indicating 'never was, never will be'. That is why I'm looking for more recent info from a Kukkiwon office holder. I'll inquire into it again... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:04:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #22 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.