From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #26 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 14 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 026 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: 10th the_dojang: You can never have too high a rank! the_dojang: English to Korean translation Re: the_dojang: Re: 10th [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~735 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anders Torvill Bjorvand Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:01:59 +0100 Subject: the_dojang: Re: 10th At 07:22 14/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >"There is no such thing as 10th Dan in taekwondo." Period, end of >story. My educated guess is that this holds true for any bonifide Korean >system or style. You're so wrong - just check the kukkiwon manual. This is the authoritative guide on kukki-tkd - you're master is most definitely not. In the paperback version, on page 483, you can clearly see that 10th dan is the highest level and that it is part of the ranking system. Other styles of tkd might not have a 10th dan at all - e.g. the ITF does not. > Here's the reason: > Master Sang Lee (he hastily rejects the title "Grandmaster" as his > master >is still quite alive, BTW) explained that the number 10 symbolizes >"perfection" and I think also "heaven," in Korean culture, or lore. It is, >therefore, a level that is unattainable by man in the realm of the earth. He >added that If one is has been a "great master" in life, as an honorary >gesture he/she might be awarded a 10th Dan posthumously. This is correct, and the point is that one can not get 10th dan due to technical achievements or likewise - but only as a token of good will and a courtesy/honor. In practice, this means that practititioners normally will not obtain 10th dan from the kukkiwon. >I guess all those 10th dan guys I have seen in their yellow pages ads must be >really slow, stiff and stinky as those are the prerequisites for that >promotion. Lee Chong Woo that I mentioned, is (was ??) the secretary general and vicepresident of WTF. He got his 9th dan from the kukkiwon in 1975. His 10th has been obtained through his kwan where he is the head (jidokwan). So not all the kwans think the same about the number 10 as the kukkiwon do. Sincerely, Anders Torvill Bjorvand ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:23:49 PST Subject: the_dojang: You can never have too high a rank! Steven said: >I don't need to ask my sabomnim about this issue as I have heard him >answer it for question-crazy white belts (like I probably was, too) >many >times. "There is no such thing as 10th Dan in taekwondo." >Period, end of >story. My educated guess is that this holds true for >any bonifide Korean >system or style. Here's the reason: > Master Sang Lee (he hastily rejects the title "Grandmaster" as >his >master is still quite alive, BTW) explained that the number 10 >symbolizes >"perfection" and I think also "heaven," in Korean >culture, or lore. It >is, therefore, a level that is unattainable by >man in the realm of the >earth. He added that If one is has been >a "great master" in life, as an >honorary gesture he/she might be >awarded a 10th Dan posthumously. This is an interesting thought on the reason for no 10th dans. I there are 9 dans in Taekwon-Do because 9 is the highest of the single digit numbers. Having a 10th dan would mean being the lowest of the double digits. 9 also, I believe represents King (not sure on this one). I have only seen a few people claiming 10th dans in Taekwon-Do for about the past two or three years. They are all Kwan affiliated (all from Chung Do Kwan, actually). There are several other Korean styles that have 10th dans, usually being reserved for the founder and/or current head of the style. Some examples: Kwang Sik Myung of Hapkido, Suh, In Hyuk of Kuk Sool Won, and (I think) Ji Han Jae of Hapkido. I always thought it was cool that TKD did its own thing regarding ranks. I hope this 10th dan thing dies a quick death - too much like karate ;). Taekwon, Chris PS Anyone know if and what dan ranking was claimed by Choi, Young Sool and Hwang Kee? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:25:56 PST Subject: the_dojang: English to Korean translation I am interested in translating a saying in English into Korean. If anyone out there can help me please contact me via private e-mail. Thanks a lot. Taekwon, Chris caspiller@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:33:19 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: 10th > You're so wrong - just check the kukkiwon manual. This is the authoritative > guide on > kukki-tkd - you're master is most definitely not. > In the paperback version, on page 483, you can clearly see that 10th dan is > the highest > level and that it is part of the ranking system. Actually I believe that he is correct. Your cite also shows up in the hardback version of the 1970s, but it (10th Dan) has never been used (by the Kukkiwon) and from what we know, and the info comes from excellent sources (a Kukkiwon officer and now the President of the USTU, whom I suspect both know at least a little about kukki-tdk :), it probably never will. > This is correct, and the point is that one can not get 10th dan due to > technical achievements > or likewise - but only as a token of good will and a courtesy/honor. Only posthumously. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:48:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #26 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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