From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #44 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 21 Jan 2000 Vol 07 : Num 044 In this issue: the_dojang: 2 out of 3 ain't bad the_dojang: Jackie Chan/ Jin Pal Kim Re: the_dojang: Re: Hot Button Issue or Timely Topic ? the_dojang: Re: mis?pronunciation the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #43 the_dojang: Re: Cross-trainng vs Sticking to your core art, some comments the_dojang: Re[2]: Trivial Pursuit Question for the Day Re: the_dojang: I could really use your advice the_dojang: Re: Cross-training some comments=well stated Mr. Cushing the_dojang: Re: Re[2]: Trivial Pursuit Question for the Day=answers the_dojang: on topic ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~745 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:46:51 PST Subject: the_dojang: 2 out of 3 ain't bad Thanks to Ken for an excellent idea! >From: Ken McDonough >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:51:24 -0800 (PST) >Subject: the_dojang: Re: Trivial Pursuit Question for the Day >Instead of a "Quote of the Day", why not a trivial pursuit question >of the >day ? >Example 1. Easy one= "Adrian, I did it !" Answer: Stallone in "Rocky." >Example 2. Semi-easy one= "Invest in Condominiums ? Sorry, I don't >use >them?" Answer: ? >Example 3. Little more difficult= "Show us Dim Mak !...Wait...Bottom >One >!" Answer: The judge to Van Damme in "Bloodsport." Come on, THIS is the hard one? What self-respecting Martial Artist hasn't seen "Bloodsport"? Alright, forget the "self-respecting" part ;) . Taekwon, Chris "Every experience of beauty points to infinity." Hans Urs von Balthasar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: BTBEACH@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:46:15 EST Subject: the_dojang: Jackie Chan/ Jin Pal Kim I study under GM Kim at the Rockville, MD studio. Jackie Chan studied with GM Jin Pal Kim at the Hong Kong Studio, back, I think in the seventies. It was only for a brief period , six months to a year I think. He doesn't really talk about it much. He said he (Jackie) had good kicks and was a quick study. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:16:23 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Hot Button Issue or Timely Topic ? > Response: Depending on your perspective this could be either a "Hot Button" > issue or an area for mutual exchange of ideas. Case in point. On another > list a close associate advocated the need to incorporate "Cross Training" > into your Base Art. The position was that it is important to have your > base art, re: TKD, Hapkido, Tang Soo Do, and so forth. However, once you > reach a certain level it is wise to also explore other arts and incorporate > cross training into your training regimen. The caveat was that this is > solely up to the respective individual. The resulting outcry by one list > moderator, and his rapid supporters, was staunch opposition to this > position. > > What is your perspective on this ? In my case, my tender youthful years > are fading fast. While I admire TKD competition there is no way I can > compete, maintain a career, raise a family, and go to school. Hence, sport > competition is not my particular bag. Therefore, I look to other training > modalities and what I hope to attain from my training. Living in urban > environments causes me to look at the self-defense aspect of martial arts > and that is why I would choose Hapkido over TKD. Personal preference and > not disrespect to another art. I think it comes down to the sport vs. art thing. If someone wants to become a great basketball player, playing football on the side may not be the best strategy. Sure, there are things one could still learn from football that they might use in basketball, but chances are they'd do better by spending that extra time on basketball practice. However, if one is more interested in the big picture of learning the art of self-defense and/or the art of fighting, then cross-training is a MUST. Few, if any, styles have all the answers. After one gets a good foundation in their art it is highly recommended to branch out and investigate other arts. Not to abandon your mother art, but to experience the insights that other arts have to offer. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:10:58 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: mis?pronunciation In a message dated 01/21/2000 11:24:11 AM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: " Dave Weller (pronounced Well-er) " LOL....excellent post, dave :). i'm from missouri, often mis?pronounced "mizzooruh" and everyone thinks you and i have a farm. many "folks" do say "y'all" and "aint" and we "warsh" our clothes and put "ole" in our cars and no one, but the tourists or transplants blink an eye :). i suppose you are right, that the folks around us know what we're talking about. it's great, too, to get the education of the "appropriate" pronunciations so we know just what people are talking about. when a friend from wisconsin moved here and someone offered her a pop (coca-cola)...she thought they were offering her drugs. when she asked where the "bubbler" was, we certainly didnt direct her to the drinking fountain until she explained herself. we have a multitude of sub-cultural differences right here in the u.s....and isnt it a wonderful thing? :) melinda ------------------------------ From: Will Lowe Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:18:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #43 > As long as people are talking about martial arts in the movies I HAVE GOT to > suggest that you see "Fist of Legend" staring Jet Li. It's billed as his I saw "Black Mask". I take it "Fist of Legend" is better? The former was actually pretty bloody and gross, and most of the MA action in it was _very_ rigged, or taped at a slower speed and sped up (I know this is common, but it was _really_obvious_ in this case). Will - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | harpo@udel.edu lowe@cis.udel.edu lowe@debian.org lowe@asel.udel.edu | | http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/ | | PGP Public Key: http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/index.html#pgpkey | - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Victor Cushing" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:58:05 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Cross-trainng vs Sticking to your core art, some comments Ken McDonough commented about the sometimes heated debate on this topic. Here are some thoughts for what they are worth. It is almost always helpful to have a framework from which to depart or to which one can add, modify or change. Your core art is that framework. You should strive to select things that make sense for you instead of just trying everything...and there isn't enough time to do that anyway. Now if you are going to go for rank and titles within any art or style, you will be required (and common sense would dictate) to learn that art or style in depth....and that might take a lifetime depending on the level of skills mastery you seek. You may seek a different goal however, i.e; the development of a modified style for personal reasons (like you are no longer capable of executing the movements thought to be central to your core art or you simply see other methods as more effective for you in terms of personal protection) or the development of a modified style as a part of what you wish to impart to your students. The arguments for cross training are many, but will be met with skepticism by those who want to preserve the core art. You will almost never get much grief if you don't call the cross training elements by the name of the core art. Some silly examples just for the heck of it (and if I accidentally named some actual style forgive me) TaeKwonDo Ground Fighting, Wrestling Wrist Locks, Judo Flying Kicks, Sumo Spinning Punches, and the Deadly Ballet Pressure Points. Now as to what to cross train in......along with a core art, something that teaches you to get out of harm's way deflect blows or block them as if your life depended on it, something in addition that teaches you to hit and kick hard as you do that, something else that teaches you trapping range techniques, something more that assumes weapons are or might be used, something even more that allows you to escape or counter a ground fighter, something close in that uses knees, elbows and head butts, and something deadly that teaches you how to shoot or cut when the other choices are gone. For my personal set of choices see http://moderrnhapkido.org/sources.htm , but you have to make your own set. By the way Marc "Animal" MacYoung has a number of books, videos that make it clear that adherence to traditional training methods/techniques in many core martial arts will tend to get your butt kicked or your body buried, if relied on as your first level of response. Though I am sorry to say that he has not (yet) agreed to give me a penny for my endorsement, he gets it anyway. His experience just re-emphasizes the need to cross train and seek responses that will raise your chances to survive/escape violent encounters. Vic Cushing ------------------------------ From: JEREMYT@ATFI.COM (JeremyT) Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:15:18 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re[2]: Trivial Pursuit Question for the Day OK 1) Rocky 2 2) Don't know 3) Blood Sport Quick one from me, name the movies from the quotes: 1) Bring out your dead 2) Bricks don't hit back This is the toughie 3) You have no power over me Good luck. Jeremy MACS ___________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Trivial Pursuit Question for the Day Date: 1/21/00 9:18 AM Ken McDonough wrote: > Instead of a "Quote of the Day", why not a trivial pursuit question of the > day ? > > Example 1. Easy one= "Adrian, I did it !" That is what my three eldest always say.... :( > > > Example 2. Semi-easy one= "Invest in Condominiums ? Sorry, I don't use > them?" Me neither > > > Example 3. Little more difficult= "Show us Dim Mak !...Wait...Bottom One !" > No. The one in the middle!!! Donna - -- Me and my shadow ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:25:48 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: I could really use your advice > The "problem": I am 6'4" and 215 lbs. My power tends to be very > good (particularly in roundhouse, back-kicks and skipping side- > kicks) but speed is only ok - nothing to write home about (for what > it's worth, my hand speed is way better than my foot speed). > Given the rules of engagement tend to nullify my strength and play > to my weakness I'm in a quandry as to what sort of strategy to use. Jim, what style of sparring? WTF/Olympic, I assume?? There are drills and training techniques one can use to improve foot speed and kicking speed. Work with your instructor on these aspects of your sparring before going into the tourny. But the bottom line is to learn from the experience, right? Just analyze the game you'll be playing, work on your weaknesses, don't forget to also work on your strengths, and most of all enjoy the tourny. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:19:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Cross-training some comments=well stated Mr. Cushing Mr. Cushing: I did not edit your comments below since I thought they were well delivered. You summarized, in a better fashion, what I was attempting to state. Thanks. McD... - --- Vic Cushing wrote: > Without going into war stories, here are some thoughts for what they are > worth. It is almost always helpful to have a framework from which to > depart > or to which one can add, modify or change. Your core art is that > framework. > You should strive to select > things that make sense for you instead of just trying everything...and > there > isn't enough time to do that anyway. > > Now if you are going to go for rank and titles within any art or style, > you > will be required (and common sense would dictate) to learn that art or > style > in depth....and that might take a lifetime depending on the level of > skills > mastery you seek. > > You may seek a different goal however, i.e; the development of a modified > style for personal reasons (like you are no longer capable of executing > the > movements thought to be central to your core art or you simply see other > methods as more effective for you in terms of personal protection) or the > development of a modified style as a part of what you wish to impart to > your > students. > > The arguments for cross training are many, but will be met with > skepticism > by those who want to preserve the core art. You will almost never get > much > grief if you don't call the cross training elements by the name of the > core > art. Some silly examples just for the heck of it (and if I accidentally > named some actual style forgive me) TaeKwonDo Ground Fighting, > Wrestling > Wrist Locks, Judo Flying Kicks, Sumo Spinning Punches, and the Deadly > Ballet Pressure Points. > > Now as to what to cross train in......along with a core art, something > that > teaches you to get out of harm's way deflect blows or block them as if > your > life depended on it, something in addition that teaches you to hit and > kick > hard as you do that, something else that teaches you trapping range > techniques, something more that assumes weapons are or might be used, > something even more that allows you to escape or counter a ground > fighter, > something close in that uses knees, elbows and head butts, and something > deadly that teaches you how to shoot or cut when the other choices are > gone. > For my personal set of choices see http://moderrnhapkido.org/sources.htm > , > but you have to make your own set. And most importantly you have to > choose > what to use (usually in a split second) when the fit hits the shan. > > By the way Marc "Animal" MacYoung has a number of books, videos that make > it > clear that adherence to traditional training methods/techniques in many > core > martial arts will tend to get your butt kicked or your body buried, if > relied on as your first level of response. Though I am sorry to say that > he > has not (yet) agreed to give me a penny for my endorsement, he gets it > anyway. His experience just re-emphasizes the need to cross train and > seek > responses that will raise your chances to survive/escape violent > encounters. > > Vic Cushing ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:33:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Re[2]: Trivial Pursuit Question for the Day=answers I attempted to post this earlier. However, I believe it did not go through. Answers: 1. Rocky II (However, a joker at work advised me it was Rocky I. I countered with, "No, at the end of the movie when he goes the distance with Apollo Creed he sez 'Adrian, I love you.' "). 2. Rocky II. This is a scene where the Italian Mobguy sez to Rocky "Hey, Rocky what ya gonna do with all that money ? Invest in Condominiums." Rocky sez "...I don't use them." 3. Bloodsport. Regarding Jeremy's number 2 question I believe the answer is Bloodsport. Bolo sez that to Van Damme portraying Frank Duks. Notice the subtle humor in that line. In the movie, Enter The Dragon, Bruce Lee sez to the murderer of his sister, "Boards do not hit back." Bolo was in that movie. Several decades later, Bolo sez to Van Damme "Bricks don't hit back." I am working on the other questions posed by Jeremy. Have a good weekend. McD... ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:42:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: on topic Folks, please remember to keep your posts on topic. From the FAQ... Q: What type of messages belong on this distribution list (in priority order)? A: For The_Dojang list: - Korean martial arts - Korean martial sports - Korean MA history - Asian martial arts - Martial arts - Seminar/tourny announcements - Korean culture Thanks. Ray ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #44 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.