From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #92 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 10 Feb 2000 Vol 07 : Num 092 In this issue: the_dojang: My mistake the_dojang: Mats the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #89 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang: Hapkido Techniques the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 the_dojang: Fw: My philosophy of HapKiDo motion Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~775 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:32:31 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: My mistake Sorry about the second part ot the exercise post That was ment for the womens self defense forum. Dang computer thingy anyways! Sorry about that! Scott ------------------------------ From: Scott Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:46:12 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Mats Ray Terry wrote: >They explained >that at their club they had never used mats. They met in a basketball gym >and since they didn't have and couldn't afford mats they didn't believe >in using them... :) Anyway, these guys (supposedly) never (seldom?) >practiced their fall on mats, so they were quickly forced into learning >proper breakfalls. === We usally pratice falls on 2" foam covered with carpet. In my estmation a very comfy landing. However as Students get higher rank I expect them to do falls on the floor as well. Giveing the mats to the lower rank students. One funny thing that happened we were exchanging students with a school in a near by town. We where welcome at their classes and they at ours. However they used a Six inch foam mattress as their padding. When they came to ours they were truly shocked that we expected them to fall on only 2" foam "without any padding". Or do falls on both sides. After a while their instructor wouldn't let them come over any more. Scott ------------------------------ From: Kas001@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:11:50 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #89 In a message dated 2/9/2000 9:29:30 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > This is what I question. Why is there "responsibility" for high ranks? > (I'm NOT saying this is wrong, just wondering what people think :) > If I can control my actions, and not abuse my skill in public, why > can't I simply continue to "amass skill and knowledge"? (C'mon people, > use your heads and think about what you're doing and why you're doing it!) > I earned a "Master's Degree" in Electromagnetics in college, but never > taught a class, and never tutored it. > > >There is an obligation of sorts to pass on your knowledge to others (the > >"teaching for posterity" thing). Besides, to truly become a master of > >martial arts, you need to teach it to others, because you learn more by > >teaching than by just doing. > > Excellent point about learning more when you teach - very true!!! > But, have I not "mastered the art" if I merely have skill + knowledge? > Einstein was a master of physics... did he teach it??? > Montana was a master of quarterbacking... has he coached??? > Perhaps an alternate model for advanced education would be the university system. All (or almost all) of the professors at the university level are PhD's, but, after earning their PhD, they are post docs, associate professors, assistant professors, and full professors (perhaps also endowed chairs or professor emeritus). Teaching, publication, research dollars brought in, and time determine the differences. So, in essence, the persons ability to apply and communicate their knowledge are the decisive factors. Who set up this system? Who knows, but that is the system. If the hierarchy of the martial arts includes more than just physical skills at certain levels, so be it. I don't think we really want to see 90 year old grandmasters doing tornado kicks out on the test floor next to the 20 year olds (although there may be some who could). Those who have no desire to teach can hone their skills up to whatever level is skill related only and beyond that they can continue to learn and refine their skills at that rank if they do not chose to meet all the requirements of the next rank. After all, it is not all about rank. It is an individual's choice. That having been said, I also feel that teaching at the Y, your instructor's dojang, etc. should be valued. I don't thing having multiple schools and 500+ students, etc., etc. is the be all and end all of sharing and teaching the martial arts, but I guess each organization has the right to set its own rules. IMHO, - ---Kim ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:34:42 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 In a message dated 2/9/00 7:07:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > GM Lim, Hyun Soo one of only 2 true 9th dans in the world. >> > > Hmm.......someone better tell all the others that they don't exist! > Is that so? Ouch. SESilz ------------------------------ From: RDNHJMS@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:34:38 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang: Hapkido Techniques Maybe it's time to leave that other ongoing debate about Hapkido behind. I've got a question for the other Hapkido instructors on the list. - Grouping of techniques: GM Ji groups most of his techniques by type of grab, punch, choke, etc. 10 techniques for this type of grab, and XX techniques for this type of punch. I've also seen Dr. Kimm's people do a little Han Mu Do. Groups of 12 I think. GM Myung, Jae Ok (Hoi Jeon Moo Sool) groups most of his techniques by the type of technique, i.e. arm bars, specific type of wrist locks, strikes, throws, etc. For example: Ki Neok Ki and Kyoduryang Ki (Arms Bars) have 25/18 techniques against various grabs, punches, kicks, chokes. Each of the sets, Chi Gi Sool (Striking), Son Mok Beggie Sool (Basic releases), Nae Gi/Wae Gi (Wrist Techniques) etc. --- are grouped by the type of technique. Does anyone else group their techniques like this? If so, or if not, how do others do it? This is the kind of Hapkido stuff we really need on the list. V/R, Rick Nabors ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:06:08 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 In a message dated 2/9/00 7:07:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Sun Tzu did not write the Way of War, but the Art of War. One must consider with a wide-open mind ANY words translated from another language, especially one of the Asian tongues, as often there is NO absolute or direct translation. Additionally, the differences in cultures and historical epochs renders a translation from another place and time to convey something other than the author might have intended. Sun Tzu lived in a time and place very different from anything even remotely contemporary. It is therefore very difficult for us to grasp the worldview from which he made his observations and developed his theories. If you were born and raised in his time and place, you would fully comprehend the word which we have translated as "Art," otherwise it takes a rather large leap of faith to do so. I would suggest taking lightly individual words of any translation, especially one from a work of such a vastly different era, and instead concentrate on capturing the feeling or essence of such a work. Two plus two always equals four, but even a simple word such as "stop," we know can mean many things, even to someone of our own culture. Language is not math; at best it conveys the feeling or concept one wishes to express fairly closely. At best. Just a thought, Sincerely, SESilz ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:32:38 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 In a message dated 2/9/00 7:07:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > . and just to weigh in with another "true" (whatever that means) 9th Dan, > My original Grandmaster HYUN, K.S. is ranked as 9th Dan in Hapkido by the > Korea Ki-Do Association as are others. As he has been teaching Hapkido for > 31 years and training by my calculations for over 45 years, Since "dan" or rank have such disparate meanings depending whose school/style(s) one attends, and as the standards for promotion do vary so widely, I find of numerical rank almost useless these days. When someone I do not personally know the background of reasonably well tells me their "rank," I tend to stop them and ask, rather, how long have they trained on a regular basis, and, perhaps, with whom they have trained. I think this tells me more about a person as a martial artist than a number does. Perhaps this was not true 100 or 1000 years ago before there was as many styles and organizations as there are fish in the sea, but today, I have trouble with the numerical rank system. Although I don't often waste money buying martial arts rags, I do sometimes -- like if a friend is on the cover, or something -- thumb through one on the shelf of the store. What really disturbs me are the numerous advertisements for organizations (with very official sounding names) offering "promotion" and "certification" of rank seemingly to anyone who bothers to write and enclose a money order or credit card. The most serious amongst these "associations" require a videotape of the applicants "performance." Of course I have to wonder if these tapes are actually ever reviewed (and by whom), and if they are, does anyone ever not become "certified" as a result of their "performance" Does anyone out there have any knowledge of or experience with, such methods of "promotion" they would care to share? I assume there must be some customers, otherwise these ads would have disappeared years ago. I have not done a formal study, but it looks to me like there are actually more than, say, ten or fifteen years ago. Any comments? SESilz, 11th Dan in My Own Way (MOW-DO) PS: Anyone interested in increasing their rank please call or write.... ------------------------------ From: TKDSCRIBE@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:37:15 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 In a message dated 2/9/00 7:07:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > > This is the Academy of European Medieval Martial Arts. Not sure if it > > includes unarmed combat, but its worth a look. How fortunate, do you know how hard it is to find a good jousting school these days? Just jesting, SESilz ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:01:12 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Fw: My philosophy of HapKiDo motion There have been a few request for information on the way I teach techniques, so I will forward a post that i wrote a few years ago on that matter. In the way I teach and perform , all techniques are comprised of three >interchangeable parts, 1) a balance break, 2) a body manipulation using >some form of a decreasing radius circle, 3) a lowering of your center of >gravity in order to control your partner (opponent) and execute the >technique without relying on brute force. Techniques resemble the same >idea as Mr. Potato Head in that the parts are interchangeable and have a >tendency to be altered as the routine progresses. By changing the angles of >manipulation of the joints (for example) we change the reaction of our >partner. As the center of the rotation of our partners joints move away >from their center of gravity, the more severe the technique becomes, so we >spend a lot of time at dan level taking basic techniques and altering the >angles of attack. Also as our partner reacts, their footwork changes and we >must adapt our technique so that we are not working against his strengths. > Decreasing radius circles and the concept of X, Y and Z axis >manipulation are very closely related in that the there are 3 different >planes in which an object can move through in space. This is best >illustrated by thinking about an aircraft in flight. "X" would be the >aircraft's ability to dive or climb and do a roll, "Y" would be the >aircraft's ability to raise one wing while dropping the other to move >through the air like a bullet, and "Z" would be the ability to turn right or >left and after turning 360 degrees, return to its' original course. While >traveling at a fixed speed and decreasing the radius of a circle, the RPM's >increase drastically, thereby giving someone the power to manipulate a wrist >, for example, in two opposing directions in each of the three planes, >thereby giving the practitioner a choice in almost any technique of six >variations within each portion of the technique. The major problem with >techniques that are taught as one complete motion is that there is very >little allowance made for the partner that has never trained (see >"opponent") and doesn't know how to react to a technique, causing the >technique to come apart and go back to square one. If you are trained that >a technique is made up of many interchangeable parts, you will be able to >adapt and move easily from one technique to the other as many times as it is >needed. If any of this makes any sense, it's not my fault, and I hope this >explains some of the points I will be covering at our upcoming seminar.........J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:15:41 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #86 > Perhaps this was not true 100 or 1000 years ago before there was as many > styles and organizations as there are fish in the sea, but today, I have > trouble with the numerical rank system. I agree. Dan ranks only came into being about 100 years ago, so it couldn't have been a problem. :) > Of course I have to wonder if these tapes are actually ever reviewed (and > by whom), and if they are, does anyone ever not become "certified" as a > result of their "performance" > Does anyone out there have any knowledge of or experience with, such > methods of "promotion" they would care to share? I assume there must be some > customers, otherwise these ads would have disappeared years ago. I have not > done a formal study, but it looks to me like there are actually more than, > say, ten or fifteen years ago. Any comments? > SESilz, 11th Dan in My Own Way (MOW-DO) I agree that many or most are probably a scam. But I do have at least one counterexample. I have not videotested through this Grandmaster, but I have recommended him to others as his standards are VERY high -and- he is honest about how much Kukkiwon Dan rank actually costs. e.g. he won't try to lie to you and say a Kukkiwon 1st Dan costs $700 (or insert some other high $$ figure here). He'll say, "it costs $70, I add a $100 testing fee, so your total cost is $170". The list of things that must be demonstrated on tape are very long (much more than is actually required by the Kukkiwon), he has a written requirement, etc. So, there is at least one honest person out there helping out those that do not have local access a Kukkiwon Master. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:11:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #92 ******************************* It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.