From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #110 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 18 Feb 2000 Vol 07 : Num 110 In this issue: the_dojang: Posting the_dojang: Re: Posting the_dojang: Re: I was on the "other list"; compare both=response to Ray's warning the_dojang: A new hip for SESilz the_dojang: Re: Ne Student Signup Process the_dojang: re: kwanjangnim the_dojang: Re: Learning Re: the_dojang: Re: Learning [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 785 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LAHapkido@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 18:25:13 EST Subject: the_dojang: Posting Hello everyone, Ray, mentioned that posting on this site will get you kicked off of another. I have been actice on both of these site and have not been kiscked off yet. I feel that if he kicks me off for posting then I, will find a better group of people to share and gain knowledge from and with too. I notice that most of the Hapkido people on this net were on the other at one point in time. Let's just grow and train for a positive way and let the rest go by the way side. Kwan Jang Dan Rogers ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:19:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Posting > Let's just grow and train for a positive way and let the rest > go by the way side. I wish, ohh how I wish, we could do just that. I continue to encourage folks to be active on any and all MA lists and/or newsgroups. But unfortunately the following is what is being sent to many of our subscribers. So very sad that this has been occurring for about two years now... "Also, you should be aware that tkd net has a boycott on Dojang Digest, because of the inappropriate disrespectful behavior of the list owner, Ray Terry, and if you post there again, either from this address or XXXX@YYY.ZZZ, we will have to unsubscribe you from tkd net. Sorry, but that is the current policy." See issues v05.n115, v05.n121, v05.n209, v05.n320, and v06.n121 of the_dojang for directions that I posted, and issue v05.n339 for directions another person posted, on how to join the above list. And, of course, past issues of the_dojang are freely available for online searching to those actively researching the KMAs for the wealth of info that you all contribute. Ray Terry ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:40:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: I was on the "other list"; compare both=response to Ray's warning Ray stated, in part: Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:08:12 PST Subject: the_dojand: so sad, so very sad... Just a heads-up to you fine folks. The attacks from 'our friend' on another list continue. Many of you have already been through this, but a few of you haven't, yet... There is a guy that runs another list and if you post on this list or other lists you will be removed from his list. ??? No one but he understands why, but that doesn't matter. In his mind you can only be active on one list, his. If you find this confusing, don't worry, so does everyone else. My humble advice is simply to post where ever you like. As far as I know we still live in free societies and NO one can tell us where we can or cannot openly and respectfully discuss martial arts. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com> Response: I am sitting at home after a long week. Enjoying a nice whiskey and 7-up. Maxin' and relaxin'. Enjoyin' the positive vibes I get from Ray Terry's list, Jeremy's Martial Science List, and Kuk Sool list (not to mention other martial arts, jeeps, and motorcycle lists I am on). So, I read Mr. Ray Terry's post above and instantly I get nauseated. I thinks to myself, "Oh that creep is doing it again." I ponder that negative moment for awhile and I say "Big Ken, get rid of the bad vibes...drink more whiskey...enjoy life...work out...relax." The bad vibes leave. I return to a positive, happy state and good mood. That is where I am right now. Then I stop again and think the concluding thought below: Mama, thank goodness for the fine people like Ray Terry, Jeremy Talbott, and Mr. Chulmin Lee who run fine lists with positive vibes. I then take the bad thought image of the individual on another list and I do this exercise: I think that all negative energy and bad thoughts are above my head. I funnel those negative thoughts into an imaginery balloon above my head. I tie the balloon. I then let the balloon go, along with the negative energy, bad vibes, and smucks who run lists and start with the the name....... Ahh, I feel so much better now. Thanks. Have a pleasant weekend all. McD...(The Man from Glad). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:29:20 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: A new hip for SESilz FYI... List member Master Steven Silz goes in for hip replacement surgery on Monday (2/21). I'm sure we all wish him a speedy recovery. Ray Terry ------------------------------ From: "Victor Cushing" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:35:21 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ne Student Signup Process Prospective students are talked to for 15 - 20 minutes asking them what prompted them to look at us, and what their background is in martial arts, then if their interest is sincere, they are asked to sign a waiver and release, no money involved and they get a 1 to 1.5 hour lesson no charge so that they can see if this is what they want to do as an art. I do not discuss prices before they have had a chance to see what our style of Hapkido is like, and only say "our rates are competitive" which is true. After the lesson, I ask them what their level of interest is, and discuss costs. If they want to sign up, I have them fill out one copy of a contract ,date it, sign it and take it home with them. Only they have the contract, they take it home and if they want to attend they come back a few days later with check, etc. Our contracts are only for three months and there are no written renewals, just mutual agreement to continue. This tends to remove any buyer remorse, reduces the pressure by showing them that you are looking at this from their point of view. Keeping my fingers crossed so far I have not had a single student cancel a contract using the 72 hour clause etc. Vic Cushing ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:43:18 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: re: kwanjangnim Just to add more fuel to the fire of uncertainty... I have never heard the owner or head of a hagwan (private academy) referred to as kwanjangnim. Building managers, hagwan owners/directors etc, are referred to as wanjangnim. It can certainly sound the same, it probably has the same meaning but it's not the same title. It takes time to really hear Korean sounds properly. (at least it did for me.) Perhaps this is the source of Mr. Shaw's confusion Alain? Every martial arts organization I've investigated here has also used the titles differently and at different levels. For the sake of possible interest, in Hai Dong Gumdo a practitioner may become a sabum (lion teacher according to one translation but I don't know if it's a correct translation) after second dan. It requires a specific test to do so. Different from being a sabum is being a kwanjang. This refers to being the owner or head person of your training hall. As Michael Choi pointed out the prefix "bu-" or "pu-" depending on your hearing is added to a lower level version and works like "vice-" or junior does in English. So, while training to become a sabum one would be called a bu-sabum. (or bu-sabumnim by your juniors in the dojang.) Anthony Boyd - Swordsman and Teacher http://victorian.fortunecity.com/operatic/739 ICQ# 45348443 ------------------------------ From: IntlKido@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 23:14:12 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Learning << I would become too frustrated trying to learn through osmosis only. Just me. >> How 'bout those of us who remember (or still) have instructors who beat (ok, harsh word) us into remembering? :-) Mike Burnett Shin Koo Hapkido Yoo-Sok-Kwan http://members.aol.com/intlkido/hapkido.html ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:37:07 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Learning > << I would become too frustrated trying to learn through osmosis only. Just > me. >> > > How 'bout those of us who remember (or still) have instructors who beat (ok, > harsh word) us into remembering? :-) I had one instructor who used to just say, "struggle with it". And we did... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:23:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #110 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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