From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #117 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 21 Feb 2000 Vol 07 : Num 117 In this issue: [none] the_dojang: Hand cond. the_dojang: Re: Hapkido in New York the_dojang: A few things the_dojang: Sulkido the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #116 Re: the_dojang: A few things the_dojang: hurting hands [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 785 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Weller Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:25:50 -0500 Subject: [none] Some thoughts on recent posts: 1. I must say, after reading the short biographies of some of the members here, that I am honored to even be allowed to listen in, much less participate, in this forum. What a distinguished group ! I wonder how many centuries of experience there are in just this small group of martial artists (or practitioners or whatever you choose to call them)? 2. Which makes me ponder why, no matter what martial art style you practice, (or what branch of what style, or which Grand Master you pay homage to) any one would try to discredit or doubt the integrity of any other style (or branch or Grand master) without some concrete reason. Just to say, " My style ( or branch of style or Grand Master or whatever) is better than yours" is a little on the childish side ( ah, what the heck, it's A LOT on the childish side) . Admittedly, anyone with a modem can join,(heck, Ray let me on, and he doesn't even know me). But to stand face to face (or modem to modem) with the likes of the distinguished and respected members here,with their decades of training and teaching, and tell them they know not what they speak is beyond belief. The "truth" is a nebulous entity, and I believe we should all be grasping, and clawing for it. But, those who have truly found it are most likely quiet about what they have found. And what is "true" for you, ain't necessarily "true" for me. Take Tae Kwon Do as an example. I began to train in it mainly because if I were to learn a martial art in my little town, I had no choice. But, I happened to know both the instructors quite well (did I mention this is a small town?? ). I had never heard that TKD is a sport for the young and flexible, and would have told anyone that asked that 38 (the age when I began) was young anyhow ... I have discovered that in some ways TKD as a competitive SPORT is a youthful endeavor (but then, so are pro baseball football, etc etc ad naseum), but as an ART, and a healthy lifestyle it is timeless. I could argue about the advantages TKD has in self defense applications . But that would deny the efficacy of other arts that might very will be more effective. Since I have not studied all the arts (or even a tiny fraction of them) how can I make any judgment about their effectiveness, or lack thereof? I do feel confident in my ability to defend myself and my family, and hope to always learn more and better ways to make practical use of my art. I would like to learn more about the other arts, and I'm sure I will. But I would rather learn from someone with an open mind than someone who has closed themselves off to other pools of knowledge. But even then, a "purist" of one particular style might be the best teacher on the planet. I guess one has to take knowledge wherever they find it, filter out what works for yourself, and let the rest lie. 3. Which brings to mind the interesting thread on cross training in the Martial arts. I also play in some internal styles (Qi gong, tai chi) and have found that it helps my breathing, concentration and balance. I think this is especially helpful for the "elderly" among us. Even more so for the elderly who started training in the twilight of their lives. As far as self defense cross training: our instructors are fairly liberal in their use of methods from virtually any style that they believe might save our lives in a bad situation. I'm sure there are great self defense techniques in every martial art, and see no reason why good techniques would not be shared and used, even among "purists". 4. On what makes a master: One of my instructors (5th Dan) was asked, when testing for his fifth dan , why he wanted to test for "master" (in our organization 5th dan is called master) His reply sums up a lot about TKD, or probably any other martial art. "First of all the people who are ranked higher than me are pulling me up. Second, my students are pushing me up. Third, I need a new belt." His belt was a tattered mess from being worn so much for so many years, but the humbleness of this man is something that inspires me to do well every time I strap on my belt, (and I mean Any belt, even the skinny brown one that holds up my Levi's) ... In My Humble Opinion, this man is a true master. 5. Scott (swillo@netlink.net) writes about security. I am SO glad I live in a little hick town in the middle of a little hick state ! I never worry about going out at night, I leave the doors unlocked, and always open the door to strangers. I stop and help folks at the side of the road, and pick up hitchhikers. Dumb, maybe, but darned if I'll live in a prison of my own construction. But, were I to live in a large city I would probably (surely) have a different attitude. 6. Re: Other lists that have something against this one. I'm a newby on this list, and on no others. I'd like to know, is this like a Republican/Democrat thing, or more like a Hatfield/McCoy deal? Seems like a cartload of manure if you asked me, as I have never seen anything but respectful words from Mr. Terry since I have been listening in. Guess I'll have to snoop in on this "other" list and see what all the Brou-ha-ha is ...... 7. CMPorter@webtv.net (Chris Porter) asks about hand conditioning: At our Dojang we have a couple of hand conditioning tools. The best (IMHO) is the heavy bag. Go beat on it bare knuckled regularly and you'll toughen those hands up nicely. Another aid we use is a nice hard piece of oak that is wrapped in jute (or rope or something like that,, heck I dunno,, I just beat on the darn thing) that hangs on the wall. You may bang knuckle, knife edge, ridge edge, fingertips, or whatever against this. The more you use it, the tougher your knuckles (etc) get. This is all if you feel a compelling desire to break inanimate objects with your hands. Most faces, ribs and groins are soft enough that an unconditioned knuckle, (etc) will do the trick just fine. Board and block breaking with the hands can be a damaging enterprise, even if you spend considerable time toughening them. I have two knuckles on my right hand that still give me fits from a suspended board break last Sept. , but since I seem to have the "compelling" (or stupid) desire to crack lumber the old fashioned way, I still condition them.... I would advise fledgling pianists, surgeons and others who live by their hands to use caution; board, ice or block breaking CAN damage your hands. 8. If some of this is a bit dated, I apologize, I seem never to have enough time to respond in a timely fashion. (some would say I am too long winded). Dave Weller ( student ) "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: HKDTodd@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:09:15 EST Subject: the_dojang: Hand cond. I have been using Dit Da Jow for some time now and have found that if used correctly can be very valuable for conditioning and when you have serious bruises and welts from hard training. Todd ------------------------------ From: MichaelChoi@aol.com Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:35:22 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Hapkido in New York >From: "rAuL" >Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:46:41 -0500 >Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido in New York > >Hi: > >I am interested in learning Hapkido in the downtown Manhattan area. Can >someone please recommend a good school or instructor that not only teaches >technique but is interested in helping build his student's character and >potential. > >Raul Dear Raul, I trained a few months at New York Martial Arts Center. The Master is David Herbert. He is a 5th Dan under World Pro Hapkido Federation. I've never heard of the organization, but in Korea they are so many Hapkido organizations due to politics. [One Korean Grandmaster told me that they are around 40 Daehan Hapkido Hyubhoe, including Korea Hapkido Federation (under Oh Se-lim), Korea Hapkido Assocation (under Hwang Duk-kyu).] Master David Herbert is a good instructor. He also incorporates his background from Vee-Arnis-Jitsu, Sanuces-ryu Jujitsu, and Kumite-ryu jitsu as well. He teaches both World Pro Hapkido forms and Koreanized Karate Forms (including balsek/bassai). His students are very well disciplined and respectful. There is a lot of camaraderie as well. I live in Long Island and the commute to the Soho and then back to Long Island was too much for me. I currently have a 1st Dan under Korea Hapkido Association through the MooYeKwan. There are only three organizations that are recognized by the Korean government as "Sa Dan Bub In" (non-profit governing bodies) for Hapkido. They are the Korea Hapkido Federation (Oh Se-lim, President), KidoHae, and International Hapkido Federation (Myung Jae-nam, President). The real significance is that in order to be in the martial arts division of the Korean police, one must have dan certification through one of these three organizations. So, if you don't care that your organization is recognized as the Sa Dan Bub In governing body of Hapkido, then you won't have a problem with New York Martial Arts Center. Sincerely, Michael Choi ------------------------------ From: "Gary Liddington" Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:29:30 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: A few things Hi folks.. A few questions.. If anyone would be so good as to answer them :) 1, I am interested in finding out the 'meanings' of the names of the later hyungs in Tang Soo Do. IE:- Sip Soo = Ten hands, but what does the form Jin-Do represent? If anyone could supply me with a list of the hyungs names and meanings that would be great ;) 2, I am also interested in learning korean weapons. Could anyone point me in the direction of an art that trains mainly in weapons? When I was a member of the WTSDA we trained with Staffs, Knifes and later swords. However I do not believe that we train with weapons in the ITF (unless someone can correct me on this), apart from the bong. Thanks in advance! Tang Soo Gary Liddington ------------------------------ From: Andrew Pratt Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:17:42 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Sulkido Dear Donnla, If I remember correctly Sulkido is a Hapkido/Kuksulwon offshoot. It has a couple of schools. One in Norfolk (org headquarters) and at least one other school in Oxford. I discussed it in this forum about a year ago. Ray may be able to pull the posts or tell you where to look for them. There is/was a Sulkido practitioner in this list and he said they were a very small organisation. Hope that helps, Andrew >>From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:14:42 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Sul Ki Do? This weekend, I was at a tkd match in another university and noticed some people in black doboks with badges that said "Sul Ki Do Korea" on them wandering around. (They had nothing to do with the match, they just happened to be training there that day). Were these Hapkido uniforms? Or is this a separate martial art style? Donnla. << ------------------------------ From: Mike A Calhoun Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:58:17 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #116 With all due respect sir, my Sifu, thousands of Shaolin monks over thousands of years cannot be wrong. I, myself find my iron palm training relaxing and good for focus. (I study Chinese arts as well as Korean) I will say though, that your comments are logical and do make sense. I suppose that it is a personal choice that one should consider from all angles. Again, with respect- Mike Calhoun :::Martial arts are a lifestyle, not a hobby::: ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:57:47 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: A few things > 1, I am interested in finding out the 'meanings' of the names of the later > hyungs in Tang Soo Do. IE:- Sip Soo = Ten hands, but what does the form > Jin-Do represent? > > If anyone could supply me with a list of the hyungs names and meanings that > would be great ;) Check out 'Tang Soo Do, Soo Bahk Do, Moo Duk Kwan, Vol. 2', by Grandmaster Hwang Kee. Re Jin Do Hyung, from the above cite; "In ancient tradition there are thirteen basic poses or positions in the martial arts. These basic positions or stances are known as "Sip Sam Se". Sip Sam Se consists of Pal Kye (eight positions indicating direction) and O-Heng (five action or movement oriented positions)." "The O-Heng was further divided into Neh Ja and Weh Ja. Neh Ja is oriented toward mental discipline and Weh Ja is oriented toward physical movements. Weh Ja consists of 1) Jin 2) Toe 3) Ko 4) Ban 5) Jung. Neh Ja consists of the following mental disciplines: 1) Jom 2) Yeon 3) Jom [different graph from 1] 4) Soo 5) Boon Ju Hang." "This form derives its name from the "Jin" and "Toe" from Weh Ja. Jin means to advance and Toe means to retreat. Advancing and retreating are characteristic movements made during the performance of this form" > 2, I am also interested in learning korean weapons. Could anyone point me in > the direction of an art that trains mainly in weapons? Hai Dong Gumdo??? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:00:09 PST Subject: the_dojang: hurting hands > With all due respect sir, my Sifu, thousands of Shaolin monks over > thousands of years cannot be wrong. I, myself find my iron palm training Maybe thousands of monks over hundreds of years, but not thousands of years. IMHO, a few that do bone conditioning may not have problems when they get to 55 or 65 years old. But most will... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:46:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #117 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.