From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #126 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 24 Feb 2000 Vol 07 : Num 126 In this issue: the_dojang: arthritis the_dojang: Thanks ! the_dojang: Re: ATA School belt material the_dojang: Re: Rotation Teaching/Illona the_dojang: Re: block teaching the_dojang: Rotation Teaching the_dojang: Hapkido dojangs... the_dojang: Re: Life is tough for Anyone the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #122 the_dojang: Re: ATA Question the_dojang: More Martial Arts Books on eBay the_dojang: Re: V7 #113: moderated vs. unmoderated the_dojang: Re: weapons the_dojang: Teaching: Splitting Classes the_dojang: Re: Love of facts [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gregory Giddins Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:56:55 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: arthritis An interesting article about arthritis. (Okay, maybe not interesting, but informative, okay maybe not even informative, but exhaustive, don't bother to go there unless you have 20 minutes to read.) I figure it goes well with the "conditioning" thread going around... http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9071/21898.html Greg Giddins Accounting Dept. Loronix Information Systems, Inc. gregoryg@loronix.com "What we hope ever to do with ease, we must learn first to do with diligence." - Samuel Johnson ------------------------------ From: "Gary Liddington" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:57:39 -0000 Subject: the_dojang: Thanks ! Hi all, Just a quick thank you to all who responded to my questions on class sizes. Hopefully we'll be sorting the classes into 2 lessons within the next month or so. Also I'd just like to say that even though I've been on this list only a short time, it has already been very informative and helpfull! Tang Soo! Gary (Ever thirsty for TSD info...) ------------------------------ From: "Brad Bezoni" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:20:16 +0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: ATA School belt material >From: MissIllona@aol.com > ><< Regardless of rank (in a specific class), you will be taught, and expected >to test on the material of the rotation - NOT THE MATERIAL OF YOUR RANK! This >is across the board - forms, one-steps, sparring, board breaks, self-defense, >etc. So, we could have a brand new white belt, starting in May, who would >begin learning the YELLOW belt material, along with the rest of their class! >>> > >Not the material of your rank? This makes no sense to me. Why learn Black >Belt material at White Belt level and then Red Belt and then Blue Belt ... >then lower and lower. It is supposed to be steps going up ... not down. > >Plain hogwash to me. ATA is doing this ...? All the ATA schools? > >Or did I misunderstand that ? > >Illona Illona - I don't remember the initial posting of this referring to ATA schools (back issues are on the computer at home), but if so, this is NOT the norm across the ATA. I have trained in 2 different ATA schools (recently moved from one state to another), and both concentrated solely on the material for your rank. However, if you watched on your own and asked an instructor really, REALLY nice they might show you some of the advanced stuff. But, normally it is only your rank material that you work on. While we're on ATA schools, let me address the issue of the ATA only being out for money. I've been studying in the ATA for 8 years now, and I can honestly say that they aren't out for money. The tournament registration fees are the same as they were when I was a white belt ($35), and in some cases there are discounts related to rank or judging certification levels. Yearly membership in the ATA is a very reasonable $25, and with this you get registered and tracked in the ATA student database, a membership card, and subscription to a quarterly magazine. To me, this seems like quite a good deal. True, we have fees for every testing, but those fees also cover the new belt that you are getting, processing of the test scores, and mostly the overhead of the school, not ATA costs. Keep the informative posts coming! This is the forum that we all need as serious martial artists, the open exchange of ideas and info across all styles! Brad Bezoni 2nd degree (dan), ATA ------------------------------ From: "Lasich, Mark D." Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:36:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Rotation Teaching/Illona Illona writes: >Not the material of your rank? This makes no sense to me. Why learn Black >Belt material at White Belt level and then Red Belt and then Blue Belt ... >then lower and lower. It is supposed to be steps going up ... not down. >..... >Illona To clarify, the material is "blocked" as follows: White, Orange and Yellow are taught in rotation TO THOSE RANKS Camo, Green, Purple are taught in rotation TO THOSE RANKS Blue, Brown and Red is taught in rotation TO THOSE RANKS So a new White belt could learn as follows: Orange material, Yellow, then White. All Black Belt material remains the responsibility of the earned rank. The theory is that, with the color belt ranks, blocking the material does not reduce the amount of material they learn. It doesn't expose them to something "too" far advanced for them, but it does (in theory) help the students in retaining what they learn. Their entire class is all working on the SAME material - so the attention of the instructor is not divided through 2,3,4, or 9 forms - AND the students are supporting each other in that the energy of the group is on the same material. There are a lot of positives in this, from what I hear. I just need a bit more convincing before I am advocating it 100%. I hope that clears it up some! I am really, really surprised this hasn't generated more conversation ;-) Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------------------ From: Brett Erwin Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:16:49 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: block teaching > Plain hogwash to me. ATA is doing this ...? All the ATA schools? ATA instructors have the option to do this. Our school does not, as the owener is strongly against it. Personally, I am against it, and look at it like this: Learning martial arts is like learning math: 1) You learn to count - individual techniques 2) You learn basic calculations (add/subtract) - simple combos 3) You learn more calculations (multiply/divide) - forms 4) You learn word problems - sparring 5) You learn algebra - more techniques 6) You learn geometry - board breaking 7) You learn trig. - advanced techniques 8) You learn calculus - 1st degree black belt 9) on, and on... Obviously you can't learn calculus if you don't know algebra! However, I think that there can be some overlap. There is some logic in learning most techniques in a certain order. But some techniques could be interchanges as to when you learn then, same with some forms. In the ATA system, I think the white belt's material should ALWAYS be taught first. However, there is quite a bit of duality with the next 8 ranks if you wanted to interchange: (Orange/yellow) or (camo/green) or (purple/blue) or (brown/red). It's not *optimal*, but I think you could make it work. But anything more than that is too much, IMO. I don't want my brand new white belts pulling muscles and twisting ankles trying to do jump kicks and spinning kicks the first week they've ever trained! - -- Regards... ************************************************************ J. Brett Erwin Raytheon Systems Co. Phone: (972) 952-3738 Antenna/Nonmetallics Dept. Pager: (972) 598-3616 2501 W. University M/S 8019 Email: jberwin@raytheon.com McKinney, TX 75070 Fax: (972) 952-3773 ************************************************************ ------------------------------ From: "Silke Schulz" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:18:51 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Rotation Teaching Mark wrote: >>Regardless of rank (in a specific class), you will be taught, and expected >>to test on the material of the rotation - NOT THE MATERIAL OF YOUR RANK! Is this teaching methodology ATA-wide, or just in your school? If it is practiced at all ATA schools, is this something new? A number of years ago, when we belonged to the ATA, we did not follow this teaching method. Silke ------------------------------ From: J Thomas Howard Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:22:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido dojangs... Someone asked about Hapkido dojangs in Canada. If nothing else, there is a listing of hapkido dojangs from around the world at: http://www.binary.net/thomcat/Dojdir.html (And if you are part of a dojang that isn't listed there, please feel free to add it to the listings. :) Thomas Nebraska Hapkido Association - ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net http://www.binary.net/thomcat/Hap.html "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:34:31 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Life is tough for Anyone jsegovia@mindspring.com wrote: << Life is tough for anyone. Those who tell you members of this or that group or sex have easier lives with little trouble, stress, conflict, pain, doubt, anger, etc., are lying to you. Life is a challenge for everyone, although the nature of that challenge differs for people of different groups, and, more importantly, FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL! How you respond to your specific challenge determines who you are and what you're going to come out of it with. >> Hear! Hear! Sally (an aging Female "Equalizer") cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:34:32 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #122 Laura wrote: << Every post on a list like this is for the expressed purpose of distributing viewpoints, personal or otherwise. >> Well, occasionally some people try to pass on information about how-to (fill in the blank) or when tournaments will be held, etc. And some of us just like to argue apolitically. : ) Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: CBAUGHN@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:34:30 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: ATA Question Chuck Sears << As far as the tournament goes, what you described is a typical tournament. >> And I'd venture to say that no tournament (USTU, ATA, ITF, whatever) anyone has gone to has had big, burly guys grabbing people at the door and leading them to the merchandise tables in order to force them to purchase merchandise. You buy or you don't. Your choice. What you can pass by may be a treasure to someone else. What's money-grubbing about that? And a lot of individuals and families like to have a sort of "carnival" atmosphere outside the competition area. Sally cbaughn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "John Groff" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:50:43 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: More Martial Arts Books on eBay More neat stuff, including the original (1983) "Women in the Martial Arts: A New Spirit Rising" by Linda Atkinson, a rare kenpo book, etc. (No TKD stuff this time--saving it all for the next and last time next week!) You can check out this link if interested, and click on the item numbers on the left to read more about anything that tickles your fancy: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=shortgirl (Assuming that link holds up), or look up shortgirl's auctions. Thanks, Chaney []):^) ------------------------------ From: samiller@Bix.Com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:26:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: V7 #113: moderated vs. unmoderated Just out of curiosity, how many subscribers came to the_dojang as I did, from the "shark infested waters" of the rec.martial.arts newsgroup? Laura Kamienski wrote: >I have left other less skillfully moderated and or unmoderated lists, === Tang Soo! Scott ------------------------------ From: Scott Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:31:14 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: weapons > From: Piotr Bernat > Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 07:21:04 +0200 > Subject: the_dojang: Re: Weapons > > I don`t really remeber the name, but it`s a pattern done with a short stick > with a rope that can be put > around the waist. The short staff with the rope would be a dan bong. I have a video of a Kuksool dan bong form done by GM Seo, In Sun's son in florida. How do most of you do your weapons training? Do you use more forms or technique practice? Most of the training I received was techniques. I originally I only had two short jang bong forms and on sword form. I would like to add more and different forms to my techniques. Does anyone have any examples of traditional weapons forms that I could investigate? ------------------------------ From: "Silke Schulz" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:55:00 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Teaching: Splitting Classes Gary asked: >Asking the opinion of some of the esteemed instructors on this board is it >would be wise to split the older students into a senior class? Basically so >we have more time with just the juniors. Funny you should mention this...I've just been considering the same thing. I have a class of 6-12 yr olds the same size as you. Not only am I considering it because I think a smaller instructor to student ratio is important (especially at the first two or three gup levels), but also because the size range of kids in this age group is huge! I have to be very careful pairing kids off and making sure kids of the same size stay in individual lines when we do pad work Basically, I've decided that I will probably split the class from 6-8 yr olds and 10-12 yr olds (very large 12 year olds go into my adult class), and put the 9 year olds where they best fit for their size. So, IMHO, yes, I think it'd be wise to split them off, at least for now. My class schedule remains fluid...it will always depend on class sizes, instructor availability, etc. I stress that with both my students and the parents. Silke ------------------------------ From: "Christopher Spiller" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:02:10 PST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Love of facts >>Chris Wrote: <<"Uh, you do realize that you are engaging in exactly >>what >>you deny others: stating an infallible truth. If no one is >>infallible >>then neither is the above remark. Sorry. It can't be >>true that there is >>no truth. Part of the Martial Arts is >>philosophy, >that is "the love of >>wisdom." " >I didn't phrase it as an "infalliable truth", and didn't intend on >you >interpreting it as such. Fact is fact regardless of what I'd >like to >believe, and phrenology, etc. are out. I am only too aware >of my many, >many faults (I could fill a couple encyclopendia >sets...). I could have >taken up more space explaining the point >that, that just because someone >tells us, or "it is written", does >not mean it is factual (as opposed to >simple "truth", which is based >on personal interpretation, such as faith >in god, our style is best, >etc). Not all traditions are good or >scientifically viable, no >matter how much we love. >Chaney Hardman This is a huge topic and, because I do not want to vear TOO far off course for this list I will attempt to keep this brief. Infallible just means being unable to err. You certainly presented you statement as such and therefore you presented it as infallible. There is NOTHING inherently wrong with this. I guess I do not understand your distinction between "fact" and "truth". If something is a fact it is true and if something is true it is a fact. Now you could say that there are empirically verifiable facts and there are logically verifiable facts but they are both facts. To seperate truth and facts can be a little strange, especially since you can end up with "truth" that contradicts "facts" and is, therefore, FALSE. An odd definition of "truth" if I've venr heard one. Also, to say an issue such as "my style is best" is a "truth" because it is based on person interpretation is problematic. Even empirical evidence is personally interpreted (just ask the scientists interpretting it). Please note, this DOES NOT mean I think everyone should take Taekwon-Do just because I like it (well, actually I DO think that ;) ). Anyway, in case this is going too far afield this is the end of the line. (Careful with that delete button, Ray. Philosophy IS part of the MArtial Arts, I swear it!) Taekwon, Chris "Every experience of beauty points to infinity." Hans Urs von Balthasar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:45:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #126 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.