From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #145 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sat, 4 March 2000 Vol 07 : Num 145 In this issue: the_dojang: Kuntao Silat the_dojang: Re: Books of Dr. He-Young Kimm the_dojang: MD HapKiDo seminar the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #144 the_dojang: Please read this Kuk Sool Won's idea that Hapkido is not truly a Korean Martial art=comments please the_dojang: Re: Missed points and issues; lack of senior Kuk Sool Won participation on list Re: the_dojang: Please read this Kuk Sool Won's idea that Hapkido is not [none] ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 08:52:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Kuntao Silat Sunday, March 12, 2000 10:00 A.M. -- 2:00 P.M. Mr. Willem de Thouars and Mr. Victor de Thouars are presenting their arts of Chinese kuntao and Indonesian pentjak silat to benefit a fellow student of the arts, Charles Davis. Mr. Davis has an inoperable brain tumor and no insurance. Willem and Victor de Thouars are graciously donating their time to help this man and all proceeds are go directly to him (please make your checks out to Charles Davis). Come and learn from these outstanding and authentic martial art masters, and help a brother in need at the same time. Where: Sports-O-Rama, 10601 W 44th Ave., Denver, Colorado (6 blocks west of Kipling on the North side of 44th, just south of I-70 and Kipling). Contact: Progressive Martial Arts, 303-455-0222 Cost: $40.00 (or more if you can help) ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 13:00:33 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: Books of Dr. He-Young Kimm About the books of Dr.He-Young Kimm: I only have one of his books, "Hapkido II" It is a very good book and worth the price. I have been told that if you have "Hapkido II" you don't really need to buy the first Hapkido book. I'm not sure how different the other books are, and do not know if you would want or need all of them. (at least not right away, maybe spread your expense out over a bit of time) I personally want to get "Philosophy of Masters" soon. Anyone have "Philosophy of Masters" that cares to tell about it? Yours in Training, Alain Burrese http://members.aol.com/aburrese/ ------------------------------ From: "J. R. West" Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 13:20:31 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: MD HapKiDo seminar Our 12th International HapkiDo seminar was a huge success with 205 registered participants from all over the planet and I wish to thank everyone who attended or taught. Ou next seminar is scheduled for the 29th of April in Hampstead, MD, where Master Mrs. West and I will be the guests of Global HapKiDo and Master Instructor Joe Borucki. All ranks and styles are more than welcome (15 and over) and there will be a short instructor only class on Friday night. Contact Mr. Borucki for more information at globalhapkido@hotmail.com . J. R. West www.hapkido.com ------------------------------ From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 16:06:22 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V7 #144 Does anyone know how to translate into Korean "The Way of the Master"? If so, please post. Thanks, Gary P. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 13:11:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Please read this Kuk Sool Won's idea that Hapkido is not truly a Korean Martial art=comments please To interested reviewers, I just returned from a seminar and demonstration today, March 4, 2000, by Grand Master Jin Pal Kim, Rockville, Maryland. I am planning to provide a brief review of the seminar to interested readers. GM Kim is a 10th degree Hapkidoist and was the personal bodyguard to the Korean President. GM West: I definitely will attend and participate in your seminar in April. I missed it last year, am planning to eventually affiliate with one of your schools (when a few life issues are resolved), and enjoy the way you impart knowledge. The purpose of this email is to provide readers with a post by an individual on the Kuk Sool Won list. I have studied Kuk Sool Won which is extremely similar to Hapkido. In fact, GM In Hyuk Suh trained under the same Masters as many Hapkido Masters. I now post what one individual on the Kuk Sool Won list wrote. Please tell me what you think about this comment below. I find it quite interesting, to say the least (note:I did not write this stuff below and take no responsibility for the conclusions of the author). martial art. The proclaimed man that started hapkido ( Mr. Choi) had been >taken in by a japanese master when he was a boy because his family died and >he went to japan to beg for food. Mr. Choi studies some type of Aikido for >30 years. Then he went back to Korea when the Japanese lost WW2 and changed >his name back to Mr. Choi. From there I believe we went to some kind of >training place (temple?) and learned some kicking techniques and im sure >some other stuff. ( not 30 years worth or even close).... he added those >techniques to his japanese curriculum and henceforth came Hapkido. A >martial arts with Japanese and some korean. research the internet for many >sites and you will see that this is what happened. Do not look at just one >site. Look at many. Confirm these thoughts...> Ken McDonough= note: again, I did not write the above enclosed captioned comment. It was written by a Kuk Sool Won student on the Kuk Sool Won list. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 13:47:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Missed points and issues; lack of senior Kuk Sool Won participation on list I have been lurking on the issues mentioned below and now respectfully offer a few brief comments. This is what I have concluded from the issues: a. The central issue was that there is not enough participation by senior Kuk Sool Won martial artists on this list (Kuk Sool Won list). b. Master Harmon was not criticized and was only briefly mentioned. He was compared to senior ranking Hapkidoists and TKD, Tang Soo Do, and other Korean Martial Artists. Again, the issue was that many senior Korean Martial Artists (along with other senior martial artists from other styles) often actively participate and provide information to interested individuals. The lack of senior rank participation on the Kuk Sool Won list was the issue. This issue is factually correct. c. There is nothing wrong with "etiquette". It is important. However, it can be stretched to the point where it becomes controlling. For example, it was noted that one must not ask senior ranking Kuk Sool Won members too many questions. That is bad etiquette. My response (respectfully) is "Hogwash". Hogwash since many senior martial artists in other Korean Martial Arts, like Hapkido, bend over backwards to eagerly provide information to interested students. d. There was no attack that I read on GM In Yuk Suh. One poster merely mentioned the fact that GM Suh studied Hapkido under many of the same Masters of current Hapkido Masters. e. There is a healthy movement of many experienced Westerners taking the teachings of Korean GrandMasters and forming their own organizations and helping their students become school owners. To me this is a positive move. Why should traditional Korean Masters solely be in control of running Dojangs and Associations in the United States. Many American students, some of whom have studied for 30 years or more, have the same or similar skills as Korean Masters. Again, we should recognize the roots of the respective martial arts we study. But, a truly experienced American Master should be able to form his own Dojang and Association while imparting the same levels and standards. f. I think the poster seriously erred when he stated that Hapkido is not truly a Korean Martial Art.I believe Kuk Sool Won is merely a hybrid of much of Hapkido. In fact, I just returned from GM Jin Pal Kim's Hapkido school in Rockville, Maryland. He provided a seminar and demonstration. His demonstration is similar to techniques employed in Kuk Sool Won. However, I will let other martial artists on other lists comment on that point. In sum, this is a respectful response which outlines my interpretation of the discussion. The central issue was lack of participation on the Kuk Sool Won list by senior Kuk Sool Won practitioners. Kuk Sool Won is not a mysterious Korean Martial Art. It is similar to Hapkido. Many Hapkido martial artists gladly share their thoughts and training with all ranks. Senior Kuk Sool Won artists (other than Master Harmon) should similarly participate and help their lower ranking brethren on this list. This discussion is merely that,i.e., a discussion. Varying opinions may result which is good for an open forum. The day I am advised that my comments and points are in bad etiquette is the day I drop dead. And I plan to live a little longer. Have a pleasant weekend. Ken McDonough > > > > > > > >Master Harmon Has always answered questions directed at him. Ever since > i > >have been on this list he has gone outta his way to do this. I am sure > that > >Master Harmon has many other things to do than read all the mail and > post > to > >all the mail. He IS a very busy man. > > > >Now on the subject of Ettiquette. Without respect, there should be no > >martial arts. You must have respect for your seniors as well as the > >underbelts and the art that you learn. This is a key to becoming a real > >martial artist. Not just a fighter. In any martial arts tournament or > >gathering I have been to; if you asked Master harmon a question, he > would > >gladly asnswer. Of coarse if you walk up to him and say tell me "what i > >want to know" now. He will not answer your question, nor will anyone > else > at > >that rate. Not even a Hin De (White baelt) !!! (thats enough about > >ettiquette, i could go on for hours. and as Kuk Sa Nim says one has to > be > >able to fight as well as heal to be a martial artist. > > > > here is a quote from the last posting --------> "This is a great > moment > >for westerners to get the benefits of Korean Martial Arts (truly > authentic) > >but in a western society. Hapkido is not a trluy authentic and pure > Korean > >martial art. The proclaimed man that started hapkido ( Mr. Choi) had > been > >taken in by a japanese master when he was a boy because his family died > and > >he went to japan to beg for food. Mr. Choi studies some type of Aikido > for > >30 years. Then he went back to Korea when the Japanese lost WW2 and > changed > >his name back to Mr. Choi. From there I believe we went to some kind of > >training place (temple?) and learned some kicking techniques and im sure > >some other stuff. ( not 30 years worth or even close).... he added those > >techniques to his japanese curriculum and henceforth came Hapkido. A > >martial arts with Japanese and some korean. research the internet for > many > >sites and you will see that this is what happened. Do not look at just > one > >site. Look at many. Confirm these thoughts. > >there are many arts that claim to be all Korean but are not. I wont go > into > >detail. This is not saying these arts are bad. Every art has its own > >aspects. And as kuk sa nim says.(im paraphrasing this) It is not the art > >that makes one good it is what is in their heart; the intangible things > of > a > >martial artist ( ettiquete, discipline......) It is good to be in any > >martial arts, so as long as you learn the intangibles. > > > >Lets talk about mysticism, there is a certain point at which you must > keep > >some things "secrative" what good is a doctor who performs "special and > >secret" services if everyone else knows these services too. There has to > be > >honor in martial arts. When kuk sa nim came to the U.S. he found out > after > >time that most americans did not have alot of honor. Kuk sa nim tought > as > >fast as you could learn when he came over here. He taught knofe > throwing, > >cane, and many other things even at the "beginning" stages of a martial > >artist. But, alot of these poeple would get up to second, third, master > and > >quit. They would take kuk sool won and turn things around, learn a few > other > >arts, and make their own. That is pretty disgracefull, It is because > alot > of > >these people wanted the cash of being a GM, not the knowledge and self > >satisfaction of knowing they are into something great. So, kuk sa nim > >decided that he just wouldnt teach as fast, so he placed somethings here > and > >somethings there. This way if you leave him at a lower belt, you do not > have > >enough to become your own GM. It was a very smart move. some people ruin > it > >for others. And usually the bad for the good. And of coarse kuk sa nim > has > a > >VERy VERY good memory. everyone who tests for black belt...... he is > there > >to watch them and promote them if nessisasry. He knows almost all of > these > >students and how they did on each of there tests. anyone who travels > his > >life around the world to test every kuk sool won black belt should be > >accredited and then some and then some. Kuk Sa nim is trying to keep > kuk > >sool won as one, a family,,,,,,,,,,, a family. If you are a blue belt > in > >kansas and you move to New York and go to a kuk sool won school there, > you > >will still; be a blue belt and learn the exact same things, the same > >curriculum!!!! kuk sa nims tremendous efforts as well as the efforts of > the > >masters, black belts, and instructors make this possible, that is why we > are > >a family. I am very happy to be a part of kuk sool won and would never > >leave unless extenuating circumstances should occur,,,,,,, like i was > >dead,,,,,,,,,,, > > > > I would also like to say Sir, I am not flaming you remarks nor you. > >Everyone has questions and wonderunces. It is these questions and > >presumtions (when answered) that keep martial arts and martial artists > >together and in harmony. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:57:00 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Please read this Kuk Sool Won's idea that Hapkido is not > Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 14:44:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V7 #145 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 405, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.com To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, CA Taekwondo, and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.